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Thread: Speaking of Waco.... Feds are going after a cattle rancher

  1. #221
    Marksman bigern's Avatar
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    Should start talking to people in town where all these feds are holed up in hotels. Refuse all services. Picket local PD who are supporting this nonsense. Apply pressure to local authorities to resist this.
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  2. #222
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difranco View Post

    What these two gentlemen are saying is possible...but I'd bet it's far more likely that Sheriff Gillespie didn't call in a SWAT unit and one MRAP to avoid escalating the situation further. 1 SWAT team and an MRAP still wouldn't have been enough to counter 500 armed citizens anyway.

    I believe the Administration watched this from the highest levels. I believe they don't understand what makes people like us tick. I believe they thought one of the militia would fire on the government forces and allow them to unleash hell on the protestors and control the narrative and use this as an example of why we cannot be trusted to have firearms...hell, they already are busy doing that without any bloodshed. However, I believe they also didn't realize at first that their men in the BLM would be so outnumbered...and cornered...and scared. So scared that they might let out a burst of fire in fear for their lives when being confronted by so many angry, armed citizens. If that happened, and it was videoed (and the likelihood was enormous of that happening)....they would lose the PR war and the protestors would seem justified.

    We don't know who fired first on Lexington Green....we'd know this time and if it was the feds, woe be to them and they knew it. So they are de-escalating and playing the legal/waiting game....OR, they are going to do a really quick raid/attack on the Bundy ranch.

    At least that's my attempt at guessing.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  3. #223
    XCR Guru TexasChris's Avatar
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    It makes sense....Ive been stewin on that vid too.....there are several different angles that make sense for "them" and we have to be cognisant of all of them....

    As an unrelated side note.....I'm also sure that I'm not the first person on either side to realize how effective an agent provocateur could be if put in play.....
    Do what you've always done, get what you've always got. ----- Have gun. Will travel.

  4. #224
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasChris View Post
    It makes sense....Ive been stewin on that vid too.....there are several different angles that make sense for "them" and we have to be cognisant of all of them....

    As an unrelated side note.....I'm also sure that I'm not the first person on either side to realize how effective an agent provocateur could be if put in play.....
    Exactly...I think the Administration thinks we are so crazy that one wouldn't be needed. I bet they won't make that mistake a 2nd time.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  5. #225
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Denninger's take:

    So What To Make Of the BLM In Nevada? in [Market-Ticker]


    2014-04-13 12:41 by Karl Denninger
    in Protests , 340 references
    So What To Make Of the BLM In Nevada?

    This is one of those stories that is very difficult to get anything approaching accurate full-scope information on, especially with everyone on all sides of the issue spinning like plates on sticks. With that said, I'll take a crack at it.
    Federal land managers say "escalating tensions" led them to release all 400 or so head of cattle rounded up on public land in southern Nevada from a rancher who has refused to recognize their authority.
    Bureau of Land Management Chief Neil Kornze announced an abrupt halt to the weeklong roundup just hours before the release.
    "Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concerns about the safety of employees and members of the public," Kornze said in a statement.
    The apparent beginning of this came when the BLM decided many years ago that a specific endangered tortoise meant it could seize land from Nevada and "protect" it -- land that historically (and the history is very, very long, apparently dating back to the 1870s!) had been used by Bundy's family to graze cattle.
    There's an inherent problem here with Federalism that nobody appears to be taking on face-first, and that's no surprise. First principles no longer seem to be principles at all when it comes to this nation. Mr. Bundy's refusal to recognize what amounted to federalization of land his family had used in a non-destructive and renewable fashion, and to which he had made material improvements over the years without trying to claim exclusive rights, facially appears to be rather reasonable in light of the totality of the circumstances.
    BLM claims that Bundy owes the government over $1 million in "grazing fees." But BLM arguably owes Bundy for the appreciated value to the land that his improvements conferred and which they confiscated; the 5th Amendment prohibits this sort of "taking" without compensation. How does this all pencil out? I don't know -- we don't have an accurate accounting and nobody is looking at that angle of this dispute at all.
    Then there is the attempted impoundment and impending destruction of the cattle that BLM tried to implement. There were allegations that BLM intended to not just remove the cattle but steal and sell them into the commercial meat market, an act for which nobody has produced anything approaching judicially-valid process to back up. An order to remove (which a judge allegedly issued) is not the same thing as an order to seize and dispose.
    Note carefully that cattle rustling has historically been an offense over which one can get shot. And theft is theft no matter who commits the offense; absent a judicial order of seizure and disposal, which BLM has not produced, that is in fact exactly what they did.
    Irrespective of all of this, and I'm still trying to get my arms around the full extent of where rationality would come down in light of it, the BLM was challenged by a modest but rapidly-growing group of citizens who simply said "No, you have gone too far and you're not going to do this. End of discussion." BLM then unilaterally decided that speech was not something to be respected either and tried to play "time, place and manner" games in the Nevada desert with an alleged "protest zone." The people said nuts to that as well, and apparently were willing to defend themselves if accosted.
    For now the BLM has capitulated and released the cattle they appear to have stolen, along with withdrawing their massed armed agents and equipment. They have vowed to continue the fight in the courts, which of course they have the right to do.
    Finally, as a backdrop to all of this mess, there are allegations that Harry Reid (yes, Mr. Senator) is involved in attempting to steal some of this land at a well-below-market-value price for some sort of solar energy project (run by one of his alleged pals) and that there are apparently mineral interests that would like to drill on it too, all of which would be incompatible with cattle grazing. At this point I've been unable to validate the alleged corruption aspects of this to a degree that I'm comfortable with considering them driving forces behind this move, but they have been raised by multiple individuals and there does at least appear to be a facial appearance of impropriety.
    I'm continuing to investigate this situation and, I will add, it looks a lot more complicated than many have made it appear at first blush. I can't be certain how I'll come down on the facts when it is all "aired out", but for now it appears that an outbreak of violence is off the table, and that is an unquestionable good.
    Let's hope that whatever the final resolution things stay that way.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  6. #226
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Sipsey Street Irregulars: Regarding the rumors swirling about a second attempt on the Bundys.

    Monday, April 14, 2014

    Regarding the rumors swirling about a second attempt on the Bundys.

    Just talked with Stewart Rhodes and the Oath Keepers and the western politicians are interposing themselves between any threat and the Bundy's ranch, so if this is not some sort of disinformation deliberately planted to elicit a response, the feds will have to kill patriot leaders if they want the Bundys.
    Posted by Dutchman6 at 7:57 PM
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  7. #227
    Expert Tech Man's Avatar
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    Question: How does BLM handle foreign terrorist and violent criminals passing through lands controlled by them?

    Answer: They put up signs warning American citizens that the area is controlled by foreign nationals, and to avoid them.

    Whaat? No Helicopters? No weapons pointed at the foreign nationals? No tazers? No dogs? No MRAPS? No snipers? No roadblocks?
    Difranco likes this.

  8. #228
    Marksman Mechanic's Avatar
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    I'm far more concerned about the dom-t label. Pretty sure that will be a disappearing act considering recent exec order.
    Difranco likes this.
    "Freedom is not defined by safety. Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference. Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place."
    -- Ron Paul

  9. #229
    Expert Tech Man's Avatar
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    I have an idea which may solve the problem. Charge all of the narco traffickers 5% on all of the billions of dollars of illegal drugs they are moving through federal lands, charge them 10% on all of the Marijuana crops that they are growing illegally on federal land in California, and they would have such a large surplus, they wouldn't have to charge any grazing fees to the ranchers. Of course, the main problem with that, is there are some in politics who benefit financially from the drug trade, and that would cut into their profits.

  10. #230
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Man View Post
    I have an idea which may solve the problem. Charge all of the narco traffickers 5% on all of the billions of dollars of illegal drugs they are moving through federal lands, charge them 10% on all of the Marijuana crops that they are growing illegally on federal land in California, and they would have such a large surplus, they wouldn't have to charge any grazing fees to the ranchers. Of course, the main problem with that, is there are some in politics who benefit financially from the drug trade, and that would cut into their profits.

    That, and if BLM was fully funded, they'd use the money to hire enforcers to close off more land and patrol it....but only close it off to American citizens, that is.
    Difranco likes this.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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