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Thread: .458 SOCOM

  1. #11
    XCR Guru dont_tread_on_me's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Actually the .450 Bushy is a .452 bullet diameter so it will use any of those bullets,and since the 460 Smith and Wesson there are some very descent spire point bullets for that diameter now.I thought the idea of the .450 Bushmaster was a rebated rim but I can't find much out about actual dimensions either and I looked a lot longer than two minutes yesterday.I wish I could design some cartridges because I wonder at times what the hell the point for some are and others are a solution looking for a problem.I think a rebated rim large bore AR cartridge is a very good idea that should be done.The good thing about the .450 Bushmaster is that it is a factory Hornady load now,and it's not $50 a box.If I had to buy a couple followers from Bushmaster it's not a big deal,it's not like you're going to buy 50 magazines for this thing anyway,at least I wouldn't.I certainly couldn't afford to fill them if I did....lol.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse.... A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.----John Stuart Mill

  2. #12
    Marksman wombat338's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Quote Originally Posted by dont_tread_on_me View Post
    Actually the .450 Bushy is a .452 bullet diameter so it will use any of those bullets,and since the 460 Smith and Wesson there are some very descent spire point bullets for that diameter now.
    Thanks for the info DTOM!

    I think a rebated rim large bore AR cartridge is a very good idea that should be done.
    Me too -- however, I don't pretend to know enough about cartridge design to know whether rebated rims will affect reliability.

    The good thing about the .450 Bushmaster is that it is a factory Hornady load now,and it's not a box.If I had to buy a couple followers from Bushmaster it's not a big deal,it's not like you're going to buy 50 magazines for this thing anyway,at least I wouldn't.I certainly couldn't afford to fill them if I did....lol.
    Roger that!
    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  3. #13
    Marksman Whiskey three six's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM


    The XCR's bolt body is very small diameter compared to other guns.
    This lets the magazine feed lips sit higher I.E. closer to bore center line than in other guns for nearly straight line feeding.

    The .458 & .450 are both bottleneck cartridges with round or pointed bullets that generally feed better than flat points.

    Should not be to hard to rebate the rims of the 458 & .450 to .443 the same diameter as the 7.62x39

    Chances are they would feed fine I think.


    I wonder if Marty ter Weeme at Teppo Jutsu would like to give it whirl.

    No,,he's chaos, I'm mayhem,,,we're a duo act,,

    always looking for M96 stuff

  4. #14
    Expert Carpenter's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Quote Originally Posted by K88b View Post

    Should not be to hard to rebate the rims of the 458 & .450 to .443 the same diameter as the 7.62x39
    would it be easier/as easy to "neck down" a .50 Beo to the preferred size (one of these.45's)? I dont reload, but I think that the Beo already has the 7.62x39 head size.
    hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and make hay while the sun shines!

  5. #15
    Marksman Whiskey three six's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Checking my notes revealed that the .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowolf are already .443 rim diameter.

    Modified AR15's work in those calibers so it stands to reason the XCR should be able to be modified as well.

    No,,he's chaos, I'm mayhem,,,we're a duo act,,

    always looking for M96 stuff

  6. #16
    Marksman wombat338's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Quote Originally Posted by K88b View Post
    Checking my notes revealed that the .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowolf are already .443 rim diameter.

    Modified AR15's work in those calibers so it stands to reason the XCR should be able to be modified as well.
    Whiskey-three-six: This from the Teppo Jutsu website:

    Rim size – the SOCOM rim is the same as the .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51), the Beowulf rim is the same as the 7.62 x 39 M43 cartridge used in the AK-47. The B rim is easier in that you can use existing bolts for the AR. The S rim is easier in that there are hundreds of thousands of (old) bolt action rifles that use this same rim and that could be retrofitted to the SOCOM (all the old Mauser rifles ….)
    http://teppojutsu.com/458FAQ.htm

    Rim diameter on the .308 Win is .473"


    I wonder if Marty ter Weeme at Teppo Jutsu would like to give it whirl.
    BTW, if you know him, please put in a plug for the XCR. The XCR would be a perfect platform for multiple Teppo Jutsu projects -- if the .458 won't work b/c of rim size, the .338 Spectre would also be fantastic.



    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  7. #17
    Marksman Whiskey three six's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Wombat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by K88b View Post
    Checking my notes revealed that the .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowolf are already .443 rim diameter.

    Modified AR15's work in those calibers so it stands to reason the XCR should be able to be modified as well.
    Whiskey-three-six: This from the Teppo Jutsu website:

    Rim size – the SOCOM rim is the same as the .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51), the Beowulf rim is the same as the 7.62 x 39 M43 cartridge used in the AK-47. The B rim is easier in that you can use existing bolts for the AR. The S rim is easier in that there are hundreds of thousands of (old) bolt action rifles that use this same rim and that could be retrofitted to the SOCOM (all the old Mauser rifles ….)
    http://teppojutsu.com/458FAQ.htm

    Rim diameter on the .308 Win is .473"


    I wonder if Marty ter Weeme at Teppo Jutsu would like to give it whirl.
    BTW, if you know him, please put in a plug for the XCR. The XCR would be a perfect platform for multiple Teppo Jutsu projects -- if the .458 won't work b/c of rim size, the .338 Spectre would also be fantastic.
    Thanks for the update ! < updating my notebook >

    I have not made the acquaintance of Mr. ter Weeme , only know him and his works by reputation by when the late Jeff Cooper wrote about hem some time before his ( Cooper ) passing.

    Added

    Looking around the internet for pricing to re bore and rifle barrels to .458, .50 turns up prices in the $400 and up range.
    No,,he's chaos, I'm mayhem,,,we're a duo act,,

    always looking for M96 stuff

  8. #18
    Marksman Whiskey three six's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    You guys are right,,,,,,,,and I should not post when sleep deprived.

    The .499 LW and .50 Beo have the .445" rebated rims. The SOCOM and Bushie do not, they have the .473" rim.



    From left to right: 5.56x45, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, .499 LWR




    Myself rather than open up an XCR bolt face to .473 I would rather turn a few hundred case rims down to .445.

    One bolt to accommodate thumpers, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39
    No,,he's chaos, I'm mayhem,,,we're a duo act,,

    always looking for M96 stuff

  9. #19
    Marksman wombat338's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Quote Originally Posted by K88b View Post
    Myself rather than open up an XCR bolt face to .473 I would rather turn a few hundred case rims down to .445.

    One bolt to accommodate thumpers, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39
    Thanks for posting the photo.

    Perhaps somebody on here with the requisite skill set could design a ".458 XCR" with a rebated rim. :ninja: 8) :ninja:
    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  10. #20
    Marksman Whiskey three six's Avatar
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    Re: .458 SOCOM

    Photoshop is not in my skill set but crudely turning metal into smoke and chips is.

    Someone please fotochop the pic for us by putting the base of the Beo on the SOCOM.

    Anyone willing to loan me a .458 SOCOM sizing die and give up a handful of brass,,,send me a PM.

    The next question is who is to make the barrel ?

    No,,he's chaos, I'm mayhem,,,we're a duo act,,

    always looking for M96 stuff

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