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Thread: "reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?

  1. #11
    XCR Guru Merlin's Avatar
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    I run an EOTech with a 3x because I didn't know any better when I started out and I have not tried an Aimpoint. From what you guys have said mostly is that if I did try an Aimpoint I would want to get rid of my EOTech. This is probably true but since I still know no better I am happy with my choice, plus PB&J is not enough these days to send the kid through college, it has to be popcorn and water.Name:  popcorn.gif
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Size:  4.6 KBSometimes ignorance has it's upside and easier on my pocket. I would like to get one eventually though.

    Anyway, I don't remember (old brain) where I found these but they seem to work pretty good.

    "reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?-eo-tech0001.bmp-001.jpg"reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?-eo-tech0001a.bmp.jpg"reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?-eo-tech0002.bmp.jpg
    fivesidedpolygon likes this.

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  2. #12
    Carbineman fivesidedpolygon's Avatar
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    Thanks a million for all the great feedback guys. I made it out to the range today finally, even though the rain had the I40 W at a near standstill. Glad I did too as I was pretty stoked about the results with the affordable combo I posted about originally. I knew my BUIS were zeroed so I started by cowitnessing the SightMark at 25 yds with the bipod. That was super easy to do because the mount/dot were already dead nuts left to right and I just had to change the elevation a few clicks. I do get a little bit of dot flare if my cheek weld & eye relief aren't exactly right every time, but generally I can deal with the dot resolution. There are 4 reticule styles on the selector - thus far I've gone with the dot, but after hearing you guys' experience I'll try the outer ring or crosshair.

    Then I played around comparing magnified and unmagnified shot groups at 50 yds. I hear you loud & clear Bravo re: the efficacy of magnifying a dot that's already covering X inches at Y yds. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense at longer range. But I clearly shoot better in the 25-75 yd range when it's magnified. (see photo) The left is just the SightMark dot @ 50 yds. The right is SightMark plus Vortex 3T @ same. Keep in mind that I'm not an excellent shot, so the 3.5" group on the right is pretty good shooting for me, especially just breaking these in. Only problem I had all day was the Vortex mount screws worked loose pretty quickly, but I still need to loctite those. That... and dudes kept asking me if my EOTech was mounted backwards. "reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?-photo-2-.jpg

  3. #13
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    I hear you on the results - but some of it could be the difference between having a definate aiming point and not.
    Sounds stupid, but that's why I carry a pack of targ-o-dots in the range bag. With just the dot optic, you didn't have a distinct aiming point...... That's the point of having a solid color torso, to see how effectively you'd hit on a person (versus a bullseye).
    And I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that thought you might have an EoTech ;-)

    Merlin you're right on rangefinding with the EoTech, but you notice the furthest out it goes is 400?
    The idea is that if you sight in an AR "correctly" (meaning at 300 - or zero at 25M and then VERIFY you're on at 300) then you'll essentially get no variation in point of impact worth talking about between "inside house" range and a bit over 300. If you hold center mass at 400, you'll put the round in their guts - still a combat effective hit!

    Closer zeros don't minimize the variation due to distance as well. Thus why the Army is now qualifying to 400 only.

    I got into a heated conversation about just this once..... The short version of the story is that I was talking to someone else about the lack of belief (or going out and trying it) of the butt-hurt guy, and got clued in about a video by Travis Haley. Guess what - he proved the same thing, shooting dummies. And I mean full sized human shaped targets - not socialists (socialists have full-sized bodies, double-sized egos, and one-tenth sized IQs).

    But I'm not gonna preach today. I had the military reactive target out today (not mine, one of the guys I shoot with) and couldn't connect with the XCR-L at 425 in a USMC kneeling position. I know I dropped two of the rounds low, I heard them hit the armor in front of the battery. I blame it on the TULA ammo....... That stuff seems to want to go it's own way significantly after about 200. It was set to need 2 hits within 30 seconds to flag it, and the wind wasn't that bad. Some days I'm the windshield, some days I'm the bug.

    Gonna load up a couple thousand Hornady 55 FMJ's next week, and finally be off that steel bullet stuff!
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

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  5. #14
    Rifleman willpgn's Avatar
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    Ive got a couple EOTechs, an Aimpoint T1 and a couple of Primary Arms micro dots (very similar to the T1). I use the EOtech the most during 2 and 3 gun matches because I can frame the targets faster with the large outter circle. We only shoot out to 300 yds and the nonmagnified EOtech works just fine. Ive tried 3X magnifiers and all it did for me was reduce my FOV, made me slower and added unneeded weight. If I needed magnification then Id go with a 1-4 or 1-6...at least for matches.

    I like the T1 and PA micros because of the weight and battery life. Truthfully for what the T1 costs, I would likely go with the PA if I could start over. The PAs have been good to me so far. The Aimpoints are unmatched in reliability and battery life though. Out of the 3, the Aimpoint would be my go to for SHTF sight.
    fivesidedpolygon and mjorin like this.

  6. #15
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo View Post
    I hear you on the results - but some of it could be the difference between having a definate aiming point and not.
    Sounds stupid, but that's why I carry a pack of targ-o-dots in the range bag. With just the dot optic, you didn't have a distinct aiming point...... That's the point of having a solid color torso, to see how effectively you'd hit on a person (versus a bullseye).
    And I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that thought you might have an EoTech ;-)

    Merlin you're right on rangefinding with the EoTech, but you notice the furthest out it goes is 400?
    The idea is that if you sight in an AR "correctly" (meaning at 300 - or zero at 25M and then VERIFY you're on at 300) then you'll essentially get no variation in point of impact worth talking about between "inside house" range and a bit over 300. If you hold center mass at 400, you'll put the round in their guts - still a combat effective hit!

    Closer zeros don't minimize the variation due to distance as well. Thus why the Army is now qualifying to 400 only.

    I got into a heated conversation about just this once..... The short version of the story is that I was talking to someone else about the lack of belief (or going out and trying it) of the butt-hurt guy, and got clued in about a video by Travis Haley. Guess what - he proved the same thing, shooting dummies. And I mean full sized human shaped targets - not socialists (socialists have full-sized bodies, double-sized egos, and one-tenth sized IQs).

    But I'm not gonna preach today. I had the military reactive target out today (not mine, one of the guys I shoot with) and couldn't connect with the XCR-L at 425 in a USMC kneeling position. I know I dropped two of the rounds low, I heard them hit the armor in front of the battery. I blame it on the TULA ammo....... That stuff seems to want to go it's own way significantly after about 200. It was set to need 2 hits within 30 seconds to flag it, and the wind wasn't that bad. Some days I'm the windshield, some days I'm the bug.

    Gonna load up a couple thousand Hornady 55 FMJ's next week, and finally be off that steel bullet stuff!

    Bravo,
    You read that Lucky Gunner article on the Tula and its weird pressure wave? That crap could be half filled with saw dust or cat pee, by the way it smells. As I'm sure you know Tula makes Wolf look like match grade ammo.

  7. #16
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Anybody have any experience with the Lucid HD7? Around $200 bones and here is a review from our favorite MAC.

    RobertSlaughter likes this.

  8. #17
    XCR Guru Tech Man's Avatar
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    Nice to see you back FiveSide. I am not sure that the sight mark will hold up to the recoil, so keep a close eye on the reticle for shift. If that doesn't work for you, Bushnell has a nice 3MOA unit for a reasonable price that I have heard works quite well. When you trim the brightness, it makes the dot appear a bit smaller because it eliminates any bloom. I have fooled around with one on another friends rifle, but have not shot it yet.
    fivesidedpolygon likes this.

  9. #18
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    Bravo,
    You read that Lucky Gunner article on the Tula and its weird pressure wave? That crap could be half filled with saw dust or cat pee, by the way it smells. As I'm sure you know Tula makes Wolf look like match grade ammo.
    \

    And yet much of Wolf's black box line is made in Tula factories. Frankly, they BOTH suck. I usually go with Brown Bear for that reason. Wolf sources from so many factories (including Barnaul) that it's hard to say what you're going to get.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  10. #19
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    \

    And yet much of Wolf's black box line is made in Tula factories. Frankly, they BOTH suck. I usually go with Brown Bear for that reason. Wolf sources from so many factories (including Barnaul) that it's hard to say what you're going to get.
    I learned something--I had no idea that Wolf used some Tula? Go figure.

  11. #20
    Doc
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    With Freedommunitions.com selling 55g XM-193 5.56 for $.32 a round, I see no need to shoot that Tula or Wolf ammo.

    5.56 M-193 55 gr. FMJ New
    ““The basic difference between an ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or a curse.””

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