"reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?
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Thread: "reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?

  1. #1
    Carbineman fivesidedpolygon's Avatar
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    "reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?

    Hey guys. Just went to the Asheville Gun Show with the intention of picking up a basic optic set up. (I mostly enjoy shooting my XCR with iron sights, but have been wanting to dip into the world of optics.) So I was seeking a QD red dot and side-flip magnifier. Via Kenzies Optics I got hooked up with a Vortex 3T magnifier, which I think will be plenty good for my purposes. For the QD red/green dot, I hesitantly went with the SightMark reflex sight. I know there's a reason for the cheap pricetag. I'm thinking of it as a trial run before putting a ton of money into an EOTech or ACOG.

    Here's my question to the forum: I'm fully aware that one of the reasons the EOTech is so much better/more expensive is that they're way superior in terms of construction and virtually indestructible. But what about the idea of a true holographic sight being vastly superior to the basic red-dot reflex sight? They both claim to be parallax-free, so is there a fundamental difference in how the reticule/sight pic perform?

    Can any of you guys who rock an EOTech recommend a good model to work with a 3X magnifier on the XCR? Thanks!!"reflex sight" vs. true holo sight?-photo-1-.jpg

  2. #2
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Personally, I'd go Aimpoint over EOTech....just for durability and battery life....especially if you want something really light like a Micro T-1. The Holo ring is faster to pick up targets than just a dot...which is the major advantage...and a 1MOA dot instead of a 2 or 4 or even 6.5 MOA dot on Aimpoints or reflexes like the ones from Mepro Light or Trijicon....better for longer range precision work...but if that's your real goal....a 1-4X or 1-6X scope is a better bet...and many are illuminated. The weight and more fragile nature of a scope over a red dot is the main drawback....as well as cost for a high end 4 or 6X optic.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  3. #3
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    I had the kiddo running reflex drills evening before last.
    I'm cheap though, I just put a lens cap on the Aimpoint ;-)
    Is there a difference up close? Not that I've seen. At range though, I see the difference.
    I'm glad you went with Sightmark - I don't know anything about them. My initial glance said "he bought an EoTech and put it on backwards" - glad to see it's not so!

    But here's the deal on the 3X multiplier. With a standard 1X magnification dot sight, you're easily seeing and hitting out to 300. If you zero there, you'll have extremely little deviation in impact from 25 yards to a little past 300. The human eye (assuming it's "right") can discern about 1 MOA of contrasting objects - in other words, you should be able to discern a human face within the range you're sighted in at. Not recognize features, but see that it's a non-camoed human face.

    If you want 3x magnification, now you can make out that same face likely close to 1K. But you won't hit that, much past 300, because your dot sight likely doesn't have a way of measuring drop at range. The other option is changing your zero to compensate for the range - but dot sights suck at that, and even if you could the dot sights don't have a way to estimate range.

    In other words, if you run a dot sight, it's essentially a 400 and in firearm. Putting a magnifier on that won't change the fact that it's a 400 and in firearm. You may get a more precise aiming point for usage in that range, but the range remains the same - just the weapon gets heavier. After all, dots usually are at least 1 MOA (center dot in EoTech) so you've magnified a 4 inch dot on a target at 400 yards. With dot flair (maybe just my eyes) that dot covers the entire head. Magnifying a dot that covers the whole head is questionable strategy.....

    Endgame: if you're buying the magnifier because want to hit at range, you need either a "regular" optic with a better reticle or something like an ACOG. A red dot won't do it well / right.
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

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  5. #4
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    So what Sean said, but in many more words LOL!

    Oh yeah, I gave away my last EoTech.
    The only place they're better than an Aimpoint is when you're coupling them with NVDs - you get a better field of view.
    For anything else, Aimpoint makes a superior optic IMO.
    Benjamin Kurata likes this.
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

  6. #5
    XCR Guru BuddyChryst's Avatar
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    It's all going to come down to personal preference. I went EOTech because I'm cross dominant and my right eye turned red dots into canted dashes. The circle with a dot is clearer for my eyes. Even still, I sometimes have to close both eyes for a second to refocus.

    The Aimpoints are generally considered more robust (EOTech had some early problems they fixed) and definitely have much longer battery lives.

    It is worth noting that since you're magnifying, as mentioned already, the dot will magnify as well. However, my readings on the EOTech say that the dot is actually smaller than 1 MOA, so it doesn't really grow much when magnified. Honestly can't say myself, I haven't yet bought a magnifier, but it's on my list to buy.

    As for the models, basically decide if you want to use AA or CR123 batteries, whether you want NVG capability, and whether you want the buttons on the left or back. For example, I wanted AA batteries, no NV, and side buttons (plan on magnifying at some point). That made the 517 the model for me.
    Last edited by BuddyChryst; 07-18-2014 at 06:30 PM.
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  7. #6
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    What you said about the early EoTechs having now-solved problems is true.
    The glue in the battery boxes and some of the glued pieces in the body would come loose. Those have been fixed years ago.

    That having been said, there still are problems with shifting point of aim. Not in all of them, but the weak glue and bad battery boxes weren't in all of them either.

    As I said, I'm out of the EoTech game.

    That does suck about your eyes though. I'm in almost the same camp. If I look at the dot without glasses now, it's a big fuzzy halo instead of a crisp pinpoint of light. It sucks getting old. The only thing that would suck more is not getting older.
    Benjamin Kurata likes this.
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

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    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    The vortex magnifier works really well. I get what Bravo is saying, but sometimes it's nice to get a closer look at what is going on down range. My wife loves her EoTech with Vortex magnifier, but that damn thing is a battery hog and it has crapped out a couple of times in extreme heat. Aimpoint is by far superior IMHO. I personally prefer a scope so I can see a reticle any time. I find, it is rare that I turn on the illumination, maybe towards evening, that's about it.

  10. #9
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    Yup!
    On the -M, I went with magnified, illuminated reticle (NVD compatible) optics. The reticle though - and the exposed turrets - let me range and dial (or range and hold over a KNOWN amount of MOA) quick-quick.

    For a "do everything" rifle, where I expect to use it past 350 or so, I'll pick a scope every single time.
    There are pros and cons with the ACOG types, but they are a VERY viable answer to the problem. Especially if you're looking for "energy on target" versus "precision shot at range". That CAN be overcome to a tremendous degree with judicious loading of ammo, but even that won't work across the board (and I found that out the hard way).
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

  11. #10
    Doc
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    The vortex magnifier works really well. I get what Bravo is saying, but sometimes it's nice to get a closer look at what is going on down range. My wife loves her EoTech with Vortex magnifier, but that damn thing is a battery hog and it has crapped out a couple of times in extreme heat. Aimpoint is by far superior IMHO. I personally prefer a scope so I can see a reticle any time. I find, it is rare that I turn on the illumination, maybe towards evening, that's about it.
    I have an Aimpoint Pro on my XCR now, and used to have a Vortex 3x FTS magnifier, but that's a pretty heavy combination. I took the magnifier off and now run just the Aimpoint. On my Armalite M15 I have a 3x Chevron (TA31 I think) ACOG and I'm sold. My buddy that I shoot with a lot is an Eotec guy, but I love the range estimating ability of the ACOG as well as it's battery-less operation, Tritium in total darkness and Fiber Optic illumination in daylight or indoor light. The 3x is great even very very close 7yds, and once you get out to 100 you can still shoot 1-2" groups all day long.

    I suggest you try several out to see what works best for you.
    fivesidedpolygon likes this.
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