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Thread: Leupold Mark 6 1-6x20mm (34mm) M6C1

  1. #11
    CB3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat338 View Post
    Anyone have any experience with the IOR-Valdada 1-10x26?
    I don't, but my understanding is that getting lenses to magnify more than three times was a challenge for decades.
    Then four times came along and it seemed a leap.
    A few years ago five was possible, and then pretty quickly six.
    Leupold now has 8x, but IOR is claiming 10x? Wow. I think I would want to try one in person before laying out that kind of cash, even though IOR is very reputable. I'm afraid anyone who bought one would have to love it rather than admit to making a mistake if it is not very good.

    You don't say what your intended application is, but if it is tactical, I think paying for 10x magnification could be money spent better elsewhere.

    I'm not sure who in a tactical sense needs that kind of magnification range. 1x is great for CQB type applications, but 10x is much more for dedicated long range (800+ yards). Most carbines/rifles that can handle CQB start to suck at 600+ yards, both for the cartridge used from shorter barrels (typically < or = 7.62x51) and the accuracy potential of the weapon--not to mention that successful long range field shooters with tactical semi-autos are a lot rarer than Internet postings represent. If I needed 10x, I probably need a bolt gun with a more powerful cartridge that would be unsuited for CQB and low magnification requirements.

    6x magnification makes a 600 yard target look like it is at 100 yards. That seems pretty good to me. I think it would be an extremely rare occasion that would have me trying to nail a 12" x 12" target allowing for 7-8-16' of drop at long distances from a 16" semi-auto. That's just my take on magnification.

    At 600 yards drop for a 7.62x51 round is almost 8'. At 800 yards it is over 16', and by 1,000 it is dropping so fast that a miscalculation in range of a mere 40 yards (easy to do at 1,000 unknown distance field conditions) will pretty well guarantee a miss in the field, even with 10x, no matter what form of ballistic calculation is used (especially Mil-dot or a 7.62 BDC).

    So so I guess the question is, "What would the application be for such a range of magnification?"
    Benjamin Kurata likes this.

  2. #12
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat338 View Post
    Anyone have any experience with the IOR-Valdada 1-10x26? I'm strongly considering this model for a planned .308 semi-auto buy. 1-10x26 35mm LTS TACTICAL SCOPE XTREME X1 ILLUMINATED

    I have their 2-12x36 "Spartan" and for the most part like it. A bit heavy, but with a 35mm tube that's expected. Glass is good, with just a bit more reflection than my Leupold scopes. Mounts for a 35mm tube are almost nonexistent though.

    ADM used to have a good selection of 35mm QD mounts....
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  3. #13
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    Ben, I'll get with you tomorrow about that for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
    At 600 yards drop for a 7.62x51 round is almost 8'. At 800 yards it is over 16', and by 1,000 it is dropping so fast that a miscalculation in range of a mere 40 yards (easy to do at 1,000 unknown distance field conditions) will pretty well guarantee a miss in the field, even with 10x, no matter what form of ballistic calculation is used (especially Mil-dot or a 7.62 BDC).

    So so I guess the question is, "What would the application be for such a range of magnification?"
    600 yards drops 14 MOA for me. That's 7 feet. 17 feet 4 inches at 800, 26 MOA. 30 feet 10 inches at 1000 yards, 37 MOA.
    I don't know about the miscalculation range that will produce misses, but I do know that on the UKD range all of the targets are at 500 yards, +/- 500 yards, and I was hitting at what I ranged (mildots) as 960.
    The biggest reason for bigger magnification isn't for hitting so much, it's for target ID. I got into this same conversation with a living legend in the special forces community - a sniper - many years ago. At the time, I took your position in the argument, he told me what I'm telling you. I had to learn it for myself too, so I'm for sure not judging you!
    As for the BDC stuff, it's too iffy by nature, unless you do a pretty good amount of tuning ammo and working with it. Even then, it doesn't work well if you move to a significantly different elevation and such. Going from low humidity and high elevation to high humidity and low elevation gave me an error of 2.5 MOA at 1K - a clean miss. At home, the ammo was tuned to match the BDC to get reliable hits to 1K. Go figure. Now I'm into memorizing drops and adjusting for local conditions.
    Last edited by Bravo; 10-21-2014 at 10:21 PM.
    CB3 likes this.
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  5. #14
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    I absolutely love Valdada. They make wonderful scopes with spectacular Schott glass. I've spoken to Val at Valdada a few times, a really great guy from Romania and has a wonderful perspective about our great nation and also sees the garbage that is going on. He told me it is very similar to the crap he saw in Romania under the commies. Oddly enough, one of my best friends (also from Romania) says the same thing. I do not think a fellow could go wrong with Valdada.

  6. #15
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo View Post
    Ben, I'll get with you tomorrow about that for sure!


    600 yards drops 14 MOA for me. That's 7 feet. 17 feet 4 inches at 800, 26 MOA. 30 feet 10 inches at 1000 yards, 37 MOA.
    I don't know about the miscalculation range that will produce misses, but I do know that on the UKD range all of the targets are at 500 yards, +/- 500 yards, and I was hitting at what I ranged (mildots) as 960.
    The biggest reason for bigger magnification isn't for hitting so much, it's for target ID. I got into this same conversation with a living legend in the special forces community - a sniper - many years ago. At the time, I took your position in the argument, he told me what I'm telling you. I had to learn it for myself too, so I'm for sure not judging you!
    As for the BDC stuff, it's too iffy by nature, unless you do a pretty good amount of tuning ammo and working with it. Even then, it doesn't work well if you move to a significantly different elevation and such. Going from low humidity and high elevation to high humidity and low elevation gave me an error of 2.5 MOA at 1K - a clean miss. At home, the ammo was tuned to match the BDC to get reliable hits to 1K. Go figure. Now I'm into memorizing drops and adjusting for local conditions.
    I am no sniper, but I agree with Bravo completely. I've hunted animals for years and looking over the target is usually when I use my highest magnification. Sometimes I'm a little shocked to see how hard it is to count antler tines correctly. Some units have a minimum points per side count out west and if you pop one that is under the amount, you have a problem or for that matter during spike season you want to know it is truly a spike.

  7. #16
    Marksman Benjamin Kurata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat338 View Post
    Anyone have any experience with the IOR-Valdada 1-10x26? I'm strongly considering this model for a planned .308 semi-auto buy. 1-10x26 35mm LTS TACTICAL SCOPE XTREME X1 ILLUMINATED

    I have their 2-12x36 "Spartan" and for the most part like it. A bit heavy, but with a 35mm tube that's expected. Glass is good, with just a bit more reflection than my Leupold scopes. Mounts for a 35mm tube are almost nonexistent though.
    Leupold's new Mark 8's use 34 and 35 mm tubes. Here's a link to their 35mm IMS, intended for a flat top Picatinny railed receiver:

    Leupold Optics Mark 8 IMS 35mm Mounting System - | Leupold Optics

  8. #17
    Expert wombat338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
    I don't, but my understanding is that getting lenses to magnify more than three times was a challenge for decades.
    Then four times came along and it seemed a leap.
    A few years ago five was possible, and then pretty quickly six.
    Leupold now has 8x, but IOR is claiming 10x? Wow. I think I would want to try one in person before laying out that kind of cash, even though IOR is very reputable. I'm afraid anyone who bought one would have to love it rather than admit to making a mistake if it is not very good.

    You don't say what your intended application is, but if it is tactical, I think paying for 10x magnification could be money spent better elsewhere.

    I'm not sure who in a tactical sense needs that kind of magnification range. 1x is great for CQB type applications, but 10x is much more for dedicated long range (800+ yards). Most carbines/rifles that can handle CQB start to suck at 600+ yards, both for the cartridge used from shorter barrels (typically < or = 7.62x51) and the accuracy potential of the weapon--not to mention that successful long range field shooters with tactical semi-autos are a lot rarer than Internet postings represent. If I needed 10x, I probably need a bolt gun with a more powerful cartridge that would be unsuited for CQB and low magnification requirements.

    6x magnification makes a 600 yard target look like it is at 100 yards. That seems pretty good to me. I think it would be an extremely rare occasion that would have me trying to nail a 12" x 12" target allowing for 7-8-16' of drop at long distances from a 16" semi-auto. That's just my take on magnification.

    At 600 yards drop for a 7.62x51 round is almost 8'. At 800 yards it is over 16', and by 1,000 it is dropping so fast that a miscalculation in range of a mere 40 yards (easy to do at 1,000 unknown distance field conditions) will pretty well guarantee a miss in the field, even with 10x, no matter what form of ballistic calculation is used (especially Mil-dot or a 7.62 BDC).

    So so I guess the question is, "What would the application be for such a range of magnification?"
    Good points. I'm not necessarily thinking tactical, though whatever I get will need to be suitable for home/property defense. I like the idea of a general-purpose rifle -- for years, my go-to gun has been a customized Ruger 77 in .308, basically their Gunsite Scout about a decade before it came out (although as my eyes have started to age, I replaced the forward-mounted scout scope with a Horus 1.5-8x). I'm looking for a semi- to fill the same role -- a hunting rifle also useful for recreational shooting, varmints, defense, etc. Because weight and accuracy are paramount, the DPMS Gen 2 is currently the front-runner -- it comes as light as 7.25 lbs, and I'm drooling over the "hunter" model with a 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard, which is only half a pound heavier. Except for offset irons and a place to mount a light when needed, my plan is to keep the tactical stuff off so I can mount a decent optic and still have something I can carry.

    To answer the question, my primary use would be hunting (mostly deer, sometimes hogs or varmints), in everything from thick cover to open fields. While a 1-6x would certainly work (and I am considering the VX-6), a 1-10x would offer even more flexibility for longer shots on game or ringing steel at 500 yds. I'm also thinking about the Elcan Specter 1.5/6x, but with any of the three I'm considering, I'll need to sell a few things in the gun safe first.
    CB3 likes this.
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  9. #18
    Expert wombat338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Kurata View Post
    Leupold's new Mark 8's use 34 and 35 mm tubes. Here's a link to their 35mm IMS, intended for a flat top Picatinny railed receiver:

    Leupold Optics Mark 8 IMS 35mm Mounting System - | Leupold Optics
    Thanks Ben -- will 34mm mounts work on a 35mm tube?
    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  10. #19
    Expert wombat338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    I am no sniper, but I agree with Bravo completely. I've hunted animals for years and looking over the target is usually when I use my highest magnification. Sometimes I'm a little shocked to see how hard it is to count antler tines correctly. Some units have a minimum points per side count out west and if you pop one that is under the amount, you have a problem or for that matter during spike season you want to know it is truly a spike.
    Precisely. If there's time to observe and range the target, extra magnification is helpful.
    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  11. #20
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat338 View Post
    Good points. I'm not necessarily thinking tactical, though whatever I get will need to be suitable for home/property defense. I like the idea of a general-purpose rifle -- for years, my go-to gun has been a customized Ruger 77 in .308, basically their Gunsite Scout about a decade before it came out (although as my eyes have started to age, I replaced the forward-mounted scout scope with a Horus 1.5-8x). I'm looking for a semi- to fill the same role -- a hunting rifle also useful for recreational shooting, varmints, defense, etc. Because weight and accuracy are paramount, the DPMS Gen 2 is currently the front-runner -- it comes as light as 7.25 lbs, and I'm drooling over the "hunter" model with a 20" barrel and carbon fiber handguard, which is only half a pound heavier. Except for offset irons and a place to mount a light when needed, my plan is to keep the tactical stuff off so I can mount a decent optic and still have something I can carry.

    To answer the question, my primary use would be hunting (mostly deer, sometimes hogs or varmints), in everything from thick cover to open fields. While a 1-6x would certainly work (and I am considering the VX-6), a 1-10x would offer even more flexibility for longer shots on game or ringing steel at 500 yds. I'm also thinking about the Elcan Specter 1.5/6x, but with any of the three I'm considering, I'll need to sell a few things in the gun safe first.
    Burris also has a 2-10x front focal plane that is very nice and priced fair, but it isn't super tacticool.
    Veracity Scopes - rifle scopes, handgun scopes, hunting scopes by Burris Optics

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