6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008 - Page 3
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Thread: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

  1. #21
    XCR Guru dont_tread_on_me's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    I never have liked those style handgaurds.The brass deflector is kinda funky looking too.



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  2. #22
    Rifleman hellcat's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    I'm curoius as to what engineering projects have taken priority over the 6.5 Grendel. Many of us were told it would be ready by july, and that the weapons we have already paid for would be shipped at that time. Now Christmas? I know getting things right can take time, but please don't put off a customer base that has already contributed thousands of dollars and have nothing to show for it.
    There ain't many problems a man can't fix- with $700 and a 30-06!

  3. #23
    Jack A Sol
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    Quote Originally Posted by dont_tread_on_me View Post
    The 6.5x45 seems to be the ticket.It makes perfect sense.Easy conversion with no proprietary magazine,not as much r&d to get up and running,kits,er barrels would be more affordable.What's not to like?
    One more thought,why the hell would you want a 45/70 in a semi-auto.I understand wanting the thump,but why not try the 450. Bushmaster or 458. Soccom.The problems with getting that old fart to feed properly with that case rim wouldn't be worth the aggravation.Besides you would have to do it in the XCR-H I would think due to case length.
    case length is shorter than the 308.

    the 45/70 is a former military cartridge and is available by most manufacturers and in many stores. you cant say that of the other two you mention.

    as to feeding, they managed to make rimmed carts feed thru mags in robust designs like the gatling gun, the Bren, the Dragunov, the SVT40, so theres no reason why we couldnt make it work in an XCR.

    If I'd have to choose a more modern cartridge then the 450 would be the choice as it looks to be the most likely to succeed, but it's popularity will still be FAAR below what the 45/70 is.

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  5. #24
    XCR Guru dont_tread_on_me's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    case length is shorter than the 308.
    The 308 case length is 2.015 inch and the 45-70 is 2.105.I don't know for sure if that would make it necessary to use a longer action length,but in a magazine fed rifle overall loaded cartridge length might suffer to get it to fit in a 308 magazine.I have never researched it that far.Speaking of magazines,the old girl won't be able to use a standard 308 magazine either.So now your looking at a complete mag redesign,which ain't going to be cheap.
    I'm of fan of the 45-70,don't get me wrong,but you do create more problems and design challenges when trying to use a rimmed case in a semiauto,especially one that wasn't designed for it.
    The Gatling gun doesn't apply because it dose not use a conventional magazine or feeding mechanism.Yes, there are several older designs out there used in military apps that have worked well.Myself personally can't see going through the extra trouble and cost it would take to get an old design to work when others would be easier.
    About the newcomers.Some if not all of them can use an unmodified AR magazine,which brings me to another point,and the reason for my mentioning the XCR-H,even if it will fit into the XCR-M(which it could possibly)it WON'T fit into the XCR-L.All of the others will.Thats a really good reason alone,The XCR-L is already here,and second is weight savings over the XCR-M.
    I know you won't be able to go to Wally world and buy any of the the newer cartridges,but some Wally worlds don't carry 45-70 anymore either.It is a specialty niche' to be sure,but Robinson also has to consider which ones are going to have the best market appeal and will sell the most.That can't possibly make every caliber we ask for,it's just not cost effective.



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    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse.... A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.----John Stuart Mill

  6. #25
    Marksman sinjin's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    I was wondering the same thing, hellcat. I would speculate that they only recently figured out what the problem was, hence the update. The end-of-year estimate may be to allow time to get a prototype barrel made with the correct dimensions, re-do their testing, then get production barrels and bolts made, all while other high priority projects are going on. I noticed some posts indicating that they're performing at least some barrel manufacturing steps in-house, but they may still rely on outside shops to perform some manufacturing steps, and what in-house capability they do have may be only for specific calibers.

    I'm also very interested in two of their other much-hyped and long awaited upgrades: the new stock and the new trigger. If they're diverting man-hours to get these to market, then I don't have so much to complain about.

  7. #26
    Rifleman hellcat's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    I'm squalling mainly because I keep getting told my rifle will be done by a certain date and shipped, but when that date comes, they tell me something else has to be changed or another product like the 7.62 has taken priority. I had talked to Alex on the phone long before I made the decision to go ahead and buy one. there was no mention at that time (April, May08) that there were problems. When I ordered, there were several dozen other people besides me that had paid in advance and i'm sure theres been more since me. Don't get me wrong, I believe its worth the wait. I researched and evaluated the difference between this and a piston AR15, and the XCR won hands down. I just don't like being told one thing, and then having something else happen, thats not good for business.
    There ain't many problems a man can't fix- with $700 and a 30-06!

  8. #27
    XCR Guru gunner69's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    The problem with the 6.5 is the chamber dimensions. They are critical and AA refuses to release them. That being said, I think RobArms should have went with the standard (Aussie) 6.5x39 chamber. You can easily reform 7.62x39 cases, to the Aussie 6.5, with a simple resize with this conversion. A Plus is the 6.5x39 is not owned by AA. Performance is so close you can't tell the difference. :2cents:

    I have made 6.5x39 Grendel from the 7.63x39 cases and it is a BIG PAIN-IN-THE-ASS as the case angle is different. The Aussie 6.5x39 uses the same case angle and it's a snap. How about it Alex? ??? :duh:
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  9. #28
    XCR Guru ny32182's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    I believe Terra has stated previously that the two things that got bumped ahead of the 6.5 were the stock and the trigger. I consider both of these to be very neccessary projects. Especially a fully adjustable stock, as that will bring the XCR into total compliance with all of the SCARspec functionality.

    I didn't realize they were reverse-engineering their 6.5 barrel, is that right? ??? Even if they are, it seems like it would be simple enough to get exact chamber dimensions by taking some sort of mold of an existing chamber.

    Hellcat, I understand your frustration (especially if you've already paid for it), but, RA has not actually cancelled any projects yet, so hopefully it is just a matter of time and will be worth the wait.

  10. #29
    Marksman sinjin's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    ny32182, I had asked the reverse engineering question in an earlier post on this forum, but never saw an answer. When patents and lawyers are involved, manufacturers understandably hold their cards close! I found the quote, below, on AA's web site. I don't know what would have prevented RA from acquiring a licensed reamer from AA, which, in addition to eliminating any ambiguity regarding the chamber dimensions, would, presumably, have allowed them to refer to the cartridge with the name that AA gave it.

    Are reamers available for the Beowulf® and/or the Grendel®?


    Absolutely but both cartridges (and reamers ) are proprietary property of Alexander Industries Inc. and protected under
    Federal US Law. In order to purchase a reamer, the purchaser must contact Alexander Industries ([email protected])
    and request a license. It is a simple process and for most applications it is a royalty free license – that is there is no cost.
    Once the license has been issued, simply contact the reamer manufacturer, they will confirm the license and sell you the
    requested reamer. We work with many manufacturers – both large high volume manufacturers and many small custom shops.
    If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

  11. #30
    XCR Guru TerraShrewsbury's Avatar
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    Re: 6.5 Update from Alex 9/18/2008

    We were never planning to "back burner" the 6.5. The issues that came up were not anticipated at all. We have all the barrels and necessary parts in, and they were ready to ship... until we test fired to first one and punched every single primer. They WERE ready to go, but it wasn't safe to ship them. Murphy's Law.
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