Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....
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Thread: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

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    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-just-SS.html



    Sunday, Sep 23 2012
    'I liked to shoot everything - women, kids... it was kind of sport': Secret Nazi tapes reveal how ordinary German soldiers were responsible for war crimes and not just SS

    By David Baker

    PUBLISHED: 20:08 EST, 21 September 2012 | UPDATED: 11:09 EST, 22 September 2012




    Secret recordings made by British intelligence during the Second World War have revealed for the first time the horrific atrocities carried out by everyday German soldiers.

    For years the blame for horrific war crimes, rape and genocide were laid at the hands of the SS and Hitler's right hand men but a new book details how widespread the barbarity went.

    Transcripts taken from hidden microphones on prisoners of war have been collated for the disturbing book Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing and Dying: The Secret Second World War Tapes of German POWs.

    Revelations: The new book reveals how soldiers like this one callously murdered the innocent and then joked about it with fellow soldiers

    Revelations: The new book reveals how soldiers like this one callously murdered the innocent and then joked about it with fellow soldiers
    Tainted: German soldiers crouch over the bodies of two shot down civilians

    Tainted: German soldiers crouch over the bodies of two shot down civilians
    Recordings: The tapes reveal that many of the German soldiers were fully aware of death camps - despite many stating differently

    Recordings: The tapes reveal that many of the German soldiers were fully aware of death camps - despite many stating differently

    Between 1940 and 1945 the British and Americans bugged about 13,000 German and several hundred Italian soldiers of all ranks and services - many of which in the Trent Park detention centre for POWs in north London.

    It was hoped the recordings would reveal military secrets of potentially strategic importance, instead they catalogued open and uncensored conversations about war experiences - often as to boast.
    Evil: It appears the atrocities carried out by the SS and Adolf Hitler's henchmen were a lot more widespread and done by ordinary soldiers

    Evil: It appears the atrocities carried out by the SS and Adolf Hitler's henchmen were a lot more widespread and done by ordinary soldiers

    They detail not only the extreme level of violence but a disturbing sense of enjoyment from the soldiers.

    One example of many recounts: 'There was an event in the market square, crowds of people, speeches given. We really sprayed them! That was fun!'

    Another reveals the following conversation: 'We once did a strafing near Eastbourne. We flew up and saw a big castle; there seemed to be a ball or something – anyhow a lot of ladies in evening dress and a band.

    'The first time we flew past; then we attacked and kept at it. Boy oh boy, was that fun.'

    Another reveals: 'I loved dropping bombs. It makes you feel all tingly, a great feeling. It’s as good as shooting someone down.'

    The book, which has been compiled by German historians Soenke Neitzel and Harald Welzer has been translated in to English for the first time, dispelling myths that German soldiers were not responsible for such war crimes.

    It offers a bleak inside view of World War II and in doing so, they destroy once and for the myth of a 'clean' Wehrmacht - the German name for the armed forced.

    The soldiers talk about their views of the enemy and their own leaders, discuss the details of combat missions and trade astonishingly detailed accounts of the atrocities they both witnessed and committed.
    War crimes: The likes of Josef Mengele (left) known as 'The Angel of Death', Rudolf Hess and Josef Kramer were well known war criminals but hidden microphones reveal how Wehrmacht soldiers were embroiled in the atrocities

    War crimes: The likes of Josef Mengele (left) known as 'The Angel of Death', Rudolf Hess and Josef Kramer were well known war criminals but hidden microphones reveal how Wehrmacht soldiers were embroiled in the atrocities

    One passage reads: Zotlöterer: 'I shot a Frenchman from behind. He was riding a bicycle.'

    Weber: 'At close range?'

    Zotlöterer: 'Yes.'

    Heuser: 'Did he want to take you prisoner?'

    Zotlöterer: 'Nonsense. I wanted the bicycle.'

    The material contains disturbing accounts of sexual abuse, rape and torture as well.
    Disturbing: Women and children were not spared by trigger happy soldiers, some of whom described killing as 'fun'

    Disturbing: Women and children were not spared by trigger happy soldiers, some of whom described killing as 'fun'
    Executions: German soldiers line up and execute a group of Jewish men by the banks of the Danube in Hungary

    Executions: German soldiers line up and execute a group of Jewish men by the banks of the Danube in Hungary

    In one section a passage attributed to Reimbold reads: 'In the first officers' prison camp where I was being kept here, there was a really stupid guy from Frankfurt , a young lieutenant, a young upstart.

    'And he said: 'Oh, we caught this female spy who had been running around in the neighborhood.

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    'First we hit her in the t**s with a stick and then we beat her rear end with a bare bayonet.

    Then we f***** her, and then we threw her outside and shot at her. When she was lying there on her back, we threw grenades at her.

    'Every time one of them landed near her body, she screamed.'

    'And just think, there were eight German officers sitting at that table with me, and they all broke out laughing.'
    British intelligence: Microphones hidden on POWs at Trent Park in north London helped reveal how many soldiers boasted about their atrocities

    British intelligence: Microphones hidden on POWs at Trent Park in north London helped reveal how many soldiers boasted about their atrocities

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz27JM9Bt00
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    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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    tk
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    Re: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

    There is a simple truth here: War is horrific, and that is why it should always be a last resort. It can strip the humanity from the best of us. And give rise to monsters in the worst.

    In wartime, there will always be a propensity for these sorts of atrocities. Acts of unspeakable cruelty have been documented going back hundreds of years, from the Japanese practicing tamishigiri on live prisoners, to Conquistadors flaying the genitals off of Mexica women. And a few American troops have done similar things over the years, but it has never been widespread.

    The difference lies in the prevailing culture of the armed forces. If the culture utterly dehumanizes the enemy -- like the Germans or the Japanese, or the Conquistadors, Crusaders, Inquisition or Intifada-- the atrocities will be on a much vaster scale.


    tk
    The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed -- where the government refuses to stand for re-election and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake free people get to make only once." Judge Alex Kozinski, 9th District

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    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....



    Quote Originally Posted by tk View Post
    There is a simple truth here: War is horrific, and that is why it should always be a last resort. It can strip the humanity from the best of us. And give rise to monsters in the worst.

    In wartime, there will always be a propensity for these sorts of atrocities. Acts of unspeakable cruelty have been documented going back hundreds of years, from the Japanese practicing tamishigiri on live prisoners, to Conquistadors flaying the genitals off of Mexica women. And a few American troops have done similar things over the years, but it has never been widespread.

    The difference lies in the prevailing culture of the armed forces. If the culture utterly dehumanizes the enemy -- like the Germans or the Japanese, or the Conquistadors, Crusaders, Inquisition or Intifada-- the atrocities will be on a much vaster scale.


    tk
    Had we lost WWII one of our generals said we'd be prosecuted for firebombing Japan.

    My only point in posting was really to show that it wasn't simply SS or the leaders of the Nazi party that were responsible for these atrocities.

    Sean
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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    tk
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    Re: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by tk View Post
    There is a simple truth here: War is horrific, and that is why it should always be a last resort. It can strip the humanity from the best of us. And give rise to monsters in the worst.

    In wartime, there will always be a propensity for these sorts of atrocities. Acts of unspeakable cruelty have been documented going back hundreds of years, from the Japanese practicing tamishigiri on live prisoners, to Conquistadors flaying the genitals off of Mexica women. And a few American troops have done similar things over the years, but it has never been widespread.

    The difference lies in the prevailing culture of the armed forces. If the culture utterly dehumanizes the enemy -- like the Germans or the Japanese, or the Conquistadors, Crusaders, Inquisition or Intifada-- the atrocities will be on a much vaster scale.


    tk
    Had we lost WWII one of our generals said we'd be prosecuted for firebombing Japan.

    My only point in posting was really to show that it wasn't simply SS or the leaders of the Nazi party that were responsible for these atrocities.

    Sean
    Agreed. And ultimately, we are always responsible for our own actions. Going along with the crowd is a choice, just as standing up for what's right is a choice.

    tk
    The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed -- where the government refuses to stand for re-election and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake free people get to make only once." Judge Alex Kozinski, 9th District

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    Re: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

    Unit 731 and Nanking had atrocities by the Japanese. WWII had a ton of horrible death and destruction. This is one reason I love WWII US soldiers and am sad they are going. Hitler, Italians, Japanese, and even us with the nuclear bombs took a ton of innocent lives. This is an interesting topic and one that shouldn't be forgotten.
    "Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death."
    - George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 2

    "ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"- George Orwell

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    Re: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

    Abu Graid, marines urinating on enemy bodies, British cooncentration camps in the Boer War. It happens on all sides.

    People are animals, the differene is society imposes rules on bahaviour. Take that away and we regrade to what we really are.
    Semper in excremento sum, solum profunditas mutat. 'Always in the shit, only the depth varies'

    The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.... Margaret Thatcher,

    Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Re: Secret Nazi WWII Tapes Reveal War Crimes.....

    This is why I don't normally follow blindly with unconditional loyalty follow any herd.

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