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  1. #1
    XCR Guru TomAiello's Avatar
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    Good FaceBook Post

    My wife found this on a FB group she's part of (for female physicians). It was written by one of the members there, who prefers to remain anonymous:

    This is not Justice. This is Wrong... I was immersed in the party scene in college. I drank to excess. I had black out nights. I WAS GROPED AT FRAT PARTIES. If advances were unwanted I pushed the person away and set personal boundaries. I chose to be a part of the party scene. Because of this I had fun and I have regrets. I HAVE BEEN ASSAULTED AND NOT RAPED. I could replay a scenario like Christine Ford described as very similar to things that happened when excessive drinking occurred in my own experiences.

    At the age of 25 I settled down and now my idea of excitement is Netflix and yoga pants. If any of my current patients saw my behavior back then, I could understand why they wouldn’t want me to care for them.

    I feel like being a physician is every bit as important as being a Supreme Court Justice. The decisions we make over the span of our careers could change the lives of thousands of people and their descendants for years to come. The same can be said for the Supreme Court or any other political office held. The thing is, poor choices in the past does not, and should not disqualify them. I chugged bankers club whiskey in a cornfield and peed behind a dumpster 25 years ago. But Friday I used tiny instruments to remove infected bony partitions from the ethmoid sinus a few millimeters away from the brain. Should I have a right to operate on humans despite my past? You are damn right I do. You know why? Because I spent 20 years educating myself and sacrificing countless hours to get there. I gave up so much to be good at what I do, to be confident enough in myself to put myself out there to care for people who put their lives in my hands. My hands are capable in spite of my weaknesses of the past.
    Character is built partially on learning from mistakes. Brett Kavanaugh has devoted his life to public service and the past 20 years of his life is the definition of integrity. He deserves this appointment.

    I AM AGAINST THE WEAPONIZATION OF VICTIMHOOD. Believing unequivocally the woman is right every single time no matter what is giving women power to take out anyone in their path. That is not equality. This radical position is not the answer to gender discrimination and victims rights.

    No one can even place Brett Kavanaugh and the Christine Ford IN THE SAME ROOM at a party that zero people recollect except for the woman making the accusations.
    If every single woman must be believed every single time, we all know there will be circumstances by which someone will use this power for selfish reasons. It sets women back so far. This is not breaking the glass ceiling. THIS IS NOT JUSTICE. THIS IS WRONG.
    Merlin and cjt50 like this.
    - Tom Aiello
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    ...I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

  2. #2
    XCR Guru Merlin's Avatar
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    "Political Correctness" Has been joined by "Blame The Other Person or Thing", "I Am Better than you because you don't know what I do behind closed doors", "Guilty Until Proven Innocent", "I Am More Entitled and Enabled Than You Because Mommy and Daddy Said So and Never Said No", and "I Am Perfect and You Are Not Because I did Nothing Stupid as a Teenager"!

    "Be Vigilant and Safe!!"
    "Molon Labe!!"
    "It Is A Weak Man Who Urges Compromise!!"

  3. #3
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    "Political Correctness" Has been joined by "Blame The Other Person or Thing", "I Am Better than you because you don't know what I do behind closed doors", "Guilty Until Proven Innocent", "I Am More Entitled and Enabled Than You Because Mommy and Daddy Said So and Never Said No", and "I Am Perfect and You Are Not Because I did Nothing Stupid as a Teenager"!
    Unfortunately, I'd guess we're all guilty of prejudging situations. I said this same sort of sentiment about Kavanaugh on another forum only to have an older comment dragged up where I'd said that IMO, Obama was guilty of "high crimes". In truth...there's been no charges brought (nor is it likely he will ever be charged for things like witness tampering in Malheur/Bundy Ranch, his administrations actions in Fast & Furious or running weapons through Benghazi to Al Nusra/FSA which turned into ISIS, etc.). There *is* a lot more evidence to corroborate that point of view than this Kavanaugh allegation, but still.
    Merlin likes this.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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  5. #4
    XCR Guru TomAiello's Avatar
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    I think the underlying problem is that our society has created a situation where coming forward with charges that are decades old is being rewarded. Charges that old simply _cannot_ be adjudicated in any kind of fair manner--that's why Statutes of Limitations were created in the first place.

    Encouraging people to claim Victimhood and use it as a weapon to attack others is crazy--and not at all healthy for society as a whole. Viewing decades old claims as somehow possible to verify is also crazy--there's simply no conceivable way to accurately judge the truth or falsehood of such claims.
    Merlin, Sean K. and cjt50 like this.
    - Tom Aiello
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    ...I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

  6. #5
    XCR Guru Merlin's Avatar
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    Exactly, gentlemen!!

    "Be Vigilant and Safe!!"
    "Molon Labe!!"
    "It Is A Weak Man Who Urges Compromise!!"

  7. #6
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Counterpoint(s)...

    To put "high crimes" in perspective, let's look at invasion of Iraq and subsequent overthrow of Iraqi law & order. Say what you will of faults of their "law & order"–ours isn't exactly bloodless/spotless–but they did have law & order. Think of how many civilian lives lost, unnecessarily. And, even closer to home, how many lives lost on our side; military and civilian contractors. Whatever wrong done under the Obama administration, would ISIS and ISIL be a thing if the Iraqi invasion not taken place in the first place under Bush/Cheney? and if the Iraqi governmental and military institutions left mostly intact? And, how many years of searching for the alleged WMDs, which justified said invasion? were any ever found? I think the wrongs associated with the invasion and the aftermath easily tips the scale.

    As for Cavanaugh, that son of privilege is being considered for a seat in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court. Any allegations of bad judgement and misconduct should be taken very seriously and looked into. Would you still consider hiring a certain person to be your children's sitter if that person is accused of child molestation?? Furthermore, the hearings and the accusations that are coming to light are not result of a criminal investigation. It's an interview process to see of a candidate is fit for a very important job. Judges are suppose to be impartial and non-partisan. Cavanaugh failed to demonstrate that with his ill-advised partisan rant.

    "Your guy" or "your team" don't simply get a pass just because you have a certain affiliation with them. Just as how a certain someone doesn't get a pass for being an asshole just because we like the rifle he created. If you take pride in your independence, then you really can't forgo your independent thinking, turn blind eye to evidence, and take side with "the hive" because you don't want to be cast out of a club.
    Last edited by fmunk; 10-01-2018 at 08:53 PM.
    Fool-proofing serves only one purpose: identify bigger fools.

  8. #7
    XCR Guru TomAiello's Avatar
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    I honestly don't know much about Cavanaugh. I really haven't followed this story much. If I wanted to form a real opinion about his fitness for the court, I'd start reading his opinions--not other people's opinions of him.

    My central point, though, is that encouraging 20+ year old accusations to surface, when we know _for certain_ that it will be impossible to either prove or disprove them, demonstrates a major failing with the way our society (and our government) is operating.

    Encouraging people to come forward with charges so old that the facts simply cannot be determined undermines the entire idea of due process.

    I also find the "it's like a job interview" argument extremely unconvincing. If you listened to allegations you knew for certain could not be proven or disproven in making a hiring decision, I wouldn't trust you to make hiring decisions in my company. Further, the _government_ should be held to a higher standard than a private employer. Due Process, which isn't required by a private employer, most certainly is required by government processes--and even more so by Senatorial hearings.


    I'm not arguing for or against this particular guy--I don't know anything about him. I'm arguing that a process which is, ostensibly, about determining fitness for an important office _should not_ be one in which we dredge up accusations that simply cannot be proven or disproven--let alone let them have weight in the decision making process.
    Sean K. likes this.
    - Tom Aiello
    [email protected]

    ...I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

  9. #8
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Cavanaugh is being interviewed for a very important job, yes?

    You say that you don't know him... so if you were interviewing him for a job, wouldn't you want to know all there is to know about him? his background? and anything that might offer insight into his character? above and beyond what he says to you to make himself look fit for the job? This isn't very different from what you might go through if you interviewed for a job. Heck, some civilian jobs (private or public) require background checks. Every time you apply for a credit card or loan, the potential lender runs a background check on your credit history... right?

    So, that's what this is all about. We are all now finding more about him, whether we like what we see or not. You can't shit on the process just because you don't like what's coming out. If you say you don't know him and want to know? Well, there you have it.

    History, whether personal or national, can yield different characterizations when you adjust the span of time you look at. When it's a position that is as important as a seat on the SCOTUS... "he was a very nice guy in the last few years" is simply and laughably not good enough.

    Rhetorical... You've probably done things in your youth that you're not proud of, right? While you've matured, does it mean that you're less guilty of those things?
    Last edited by fmunk; 10-01-2018 at 09:20 PM.
    Fool-proofing serves only one purpose: identify bigger fools.

  10. #9
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
    Counterpoint(s)...

    To put "high crimes" in perspective, let's look at invasion of Iraq and subsequent overthrow of Iraqi law & order. Say what you will of faults of their "law & order"–ours isn't exactly bloodless/spotless–but they did have law & order. Think of how many civilian lives lost, unnecessarily. And, even closer to home, how many lives lost on our side; military and civilian contractors. Whatever wrong done under the Obama administration, would ISIS and ISIL be a thing if the Iraqi invasion not taken place in the first place under Bush/Cheney? and if the Iraqi governmental and military institutions left mostly intact? And, how many years of searching for the alleged WMDs, which justified said invasion? were any ever found? I think the wrongs associated with the invasion and the aftermath easily tips the scale.

    As for Cavanaugh, that son of privilege is being considered for a seat in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court. Any allegations of bad judgement and misconduct should be taken very seriously and looked into. Would you still consider hiring a certain person to be your children's sitter if that person is accused of child molestation?? Furthermore, the hearings and the accusations that are coming to light are not result of a criminal investigation. It's an interview process to see of a candidate is fit for a very important job. Judges are suppose to be impartial and non-partisan. Cavanaugh failed to demonstrate that with his ill-advised partisan rant.

    "Your guy" or "your team" don't simply get a pass just because you have a certain affiliation with them. Just as how a certain someone doesn't get a pass for being an asshole just because we like the rifle he created. If you take pride in your independence, then you really can't forgo your independent thinking, turn blind eye to evidence, and take side with "the hive" because you don't want to be cast out of a club.
    And to clarify....I've said (on that other forum) that Bush also deserved to be imprisoned (along with most of our elected leadership) for the GWOT, Patriot Act, et al.

    I highly doubt you'll get most regulars here saying team "R" are the good guys. They have a different agenda that's slightly more in favor of liberty....but overall, not much. It's just a different brand of tyranny.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  11. #10
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAiello View Post
    I honestly don't know much about Cavanaugh. I really haven't followed this story much. If I wanted to form a real opinion about his fitness for the court, I'd start reading his opinions--not other people's opinions of him.

    My central point, though, is that encouraging 20+ year old accusations to surface, when we know _for certain_ that it will be impossible to either prove or disprove them, demonstrates a major failing with the way our society (and our government) is operating.

    Encouraging people to come forward with charges so old that the facts simply cannot be determined undermines the entire idea of due process.

    I also find the "it's like a job interview" argument extremely unconvincing. If you listened to allegations you knew for certain could not be proven or disproven in making a hiring decision, I wouldn't trust you to make hiring decisions in my company. Further, the _government_ should be held to a higher standard than a private employer. Due Process, which isn't required by a private employer, most certainly is required by government processes--and even more so by Senatorial hearings.


    I'm not arguing for or against this particular guy--I don't know anything about him. I'm arguing that a process which is, ostensibly, about determining fitness for an important office _should not_ be one in which we dredge up accusations that simply cannot be proven or disproven--let alone let them have weight in the decision making process.
    Agree with this 100%.

    Similar boat here...don't know much about him. Don't really care that much.....seems he's another patsy of this MAGA bullshit President. My opinion of him has no bearing on whether or not he gets confirmed anyway so why get spun up about it.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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