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Thread: New XCR-L Keymod owner living behind enemy lines Kalifornia.

  1. #21
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Okay...long story....but I'll try and make it short: Why are Glock Gen 4 guns banned from CA? Just saw it on their website. 1st question at the top: https://us.glock.com/customer-service/faq
    It's a back door ban called the CA DOJ approved list of handguns, ones deemed safe for sale in CA by career politicians and lawyers who don't know jack about guns. Any manufacturer who wishes to sell in CA has to submit "paper" (the kind you write on and the kind the federal reserve prints) to the CA DOJ to apply for approval. The approval only lasts a certain number of years and the manufacturers have to re-up. Or, if the design of an approved model changes, the manufacturers have to re-apply for approval. Something along those lines.

    Glock didn't bother submitting paper for the Gen 4 so it is not officially approved for sale in CA. Before single shot exemption loophole closed one could buy anything that is not on the list, at additional cost charged by the CA dealer. So there are a good number of guns, including the Gen 4s, that made it in. After loophole closed, anything not on the list and didn't make it in prior are legally and officially unobtainium.

    Same with the entire M&P line (except for CA variant of the shield). S&W made some changes in the design and decided not to re-up... and because of another law that passed some years ago that could not be met (micro-stamping of primers by firing pin or some sort of nonsense like it).

    The CA DOJ list has expirations for all currently approved handguns. Once those dates have come and gone without the manufacturer's re-filing, that particular model will fall off the list and would be banned for sale (as new or used from out of state, existing examples in-state can still be transferred via CA FFL dealer). The state collects a fee on all transfers... something like $35.

    As you can see, all of these gun control measures have little to do with public safety. But, everything to do with:
    1. taxation without just cause
    2. job security for bureaucrats
    3. a faux crusade for said bureaucrats to rally behind and get air time plus campaign contributions
    Last edited by fmunk; 07-14-2016 at 10:12 PM.
    Merlin and Sean K. like this.
    Fool-proofing serves only one purpose: identify bigger fools.

  2. #22
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    That's what I thought, good to know I guessed right.

    But that kind of government disgusts me - not in the corruption specifically, but in the outrageously, blatantly, obvious nature of the corruption.

    I'm the kinda guy that would get one - or the new Gen 5 G19 (grin) and carry that instead.
    Screw the lot of them.
    In the neck.
    With a chainsaw.
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

  3. #23
    Expert SLCXCR's Avatar
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    Politics: To knowing make life better for a few, by taking away from the many.
    Merlin, Sean K. and Bravo like this.

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  5. #24
    Carbineman TK421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Okay...long story....but I'll try and make it short: Why are Glock Gen 4 guns banned from CA? Just saw it on their website. 1st question at the top: https://us.glock.com/customer-service/faq
    *edit* fmubk posted more detail version of why lol

    No magazine disconnect safety is a main reason. After 2007 they passed a law that handguns need this. So all the previous generation glocks were already grandfathered in with the older gen 1,2,3 pistols that met the requirements for Ca. Since it's a "new design" it would need to be certified by the DOJ and paid a $200 fee for testing. Glock has no plans to make a gun with this feature I'm sure.
    Last edited by TK421; 07-15-2016 at 10:59 AM.

  6. #25
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo View Post
    That's what I thought, good to know I guessed right.

    But that kind of government disgusts me - not in the corruption specifically, but in the outrageously, blatantly, obvious nature of the corruption.

    I'm the kinda guy that would get one - or the new Gen 5 G19 (grin) and carry that instead.
    Screw the lot of them.
    In the neck.
    With a chainsaw.

    K...spill. What's this about a Gen 5 19? And...if you have insider info....tell them to make a G30 "long frame" with a grip the size of the 19/23/32 size compacts. I can't identify ANY good reason the 30 and 36 have the chopped down grip since (WITH mags inserted) the 19 size compact is literally like a 1/4" longer (or the width of the mag's base plate) than the G30/36. I'd much rather have the extra 1/4" of length and gain a full grip than the shorter frame to aid in concealability. A 1/4" on the mag isn't that big of a difference to warrant the short grip.

    Looked on Glock's website for the actual dimensions...the 30 is literally .19" shorter than the 19. The 36 is .23" shorter than the 19. Totally not worth it, IMO. Doesn't make sense from a manufacturing standpoint either....as G21 base plates would then interchange with the 30.
    Last edited by Sean K.; 07-15-2016 at 12:46 PM.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  7. #26
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
    It's a back door ban called the CA DOJ approved list of handguns, ones deemed safe for sale in CA by career politicians and lawyers who don't know jack about guns. Any manufacturer who wishes to sell in CA has to submit "paper" (the kind you write on and the kind the federal reserve prints) to the CA DOJ to apply for approval. The approval only lasts a certain number of years and the manufacturers have to re-up. Or, if the design of an approved model changes, the manufacturers have to re-apply for approval. Something along those lines.

    Glock didn't bother submitting paper for the Gen 4 so it is not officially approved for sale in CA. Before single shot exemption loophole closed one could buy anything that is not on the list, at additional cost charged by the CA dealer. So there are a good number of guns, including the Gen 4s, that made it in. After loophole closed, anything not on the list and didn't make it in prior are legally and officially unobtainium.

    Same with the entire M&P line (except for CA variant of the shield). S&W made some changes in the design and decided not to re-up... and because of another law that passed some years ago that could not be met (micro-stamping of primers by firing pin or some sort of nonsense like it).

    The CA DOJ list has expirations for all currently approved handguns. Once those dates have come and gone without the manufacturer's re-filing, that particular model will fall off the list and would be banned for sale (as new or used from out of state, existing examples in-state can still be transferred via CA FFL dealer). The state collects a fee on all transfers... something like $35.

    As you can see, all of these gun control measures have little to do with public safety. But, everything to do with:
    1. taxation without just cause
    2. job security for bureaucrats
    3. a faux crusade for said bureaucrats to rally behind and get air time plus campaign contributions

    Thanks for the update. I thought maybe Glock just wasn't supplying Gen 4s with 10 round CA compliant mags.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  8. #27
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLCXCR View Post
    Politics: To knowing make life better for a few, by taking away from the many.
    Corrupt politics.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  9. #28
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
    *edit* fmubk posted more detail version of why lol

    No magazine disconnect safety is a main reason. After 2007 they passed a law that handguns need this. So all the previous generation glocks were already grandfathered in with the older gen 1,2,3 pistols that met the requirements for Ca. Since it's a "new design" it would need to be certified by the DOJ and paid a $200 fee for testing. Glock has no plans to make a gun with this feature I'm sure.
    Ya, it's about as dumb ass a feature as one could put on a firearm meant for self defense.
    Bravo likes this.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  10. #29
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    K...spill. What's this about a Gen 5 19? And...if you have insider info....tell them to make a G30 "long frame" with a grip the size of the 19/23/32 size compacts.
    Sean, I've literally been bugging them for YEARS to make such a pistol. The only thing that makes me more upset than that, is the fact that they claimed to have had it developed at one point. It just didn't need to be released. Yeah, single stack mag, 45ACP, size of the G19 or G17. And get this - at one point I was told something about the only people that call up asking for it was me and Chuck Taylor. Uh, I'd take that as 'demand' ;-)

    Now then, for the Gen5 stuff. The feebs set out a contract, and Glock won. They're now going to get compact Glocks in 9mm, but here's the catch - none of the current offerings actually qualify. Ambi slide release and - this is my favorite - NO FINGER GROOVES. Stock night sights, etc. The requirement of no finger grooves means they're having to come up with something different than the current production Gens 3 and 4.

    Does it mean that they'll completely change anything to make a Gen 5? Not necessarily, but I'm betting they do more than knock the finger grooves off the Gen 4 mold.

    We'll have to see. And for the compact or service-size single-stack 45, we'll wait MUCH longer. I bugged them for a good decade before I figured out it was futile, and that was a pretty good while ago.
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

  11. #30
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo View Post
    Sean, I've literally been bugging them for YEARS to make such a pistol. The only thing that makes me more upset than that, is the fact that they claimed to have had it developed at one point. It just didn't need to be released. Yeah, single stack mag, 45ACP, size of the G19 or G17. And get this - at one point I was told something about the only people that call up asking for it was me and Chuck Taylor. Uh, I'd take that as 'demand' ;-)

    Now then, for the Gen5 stuff. The feebs set out a contract, and Glock won. They're now going to get compact Glocks in 9mm, but here's the catch - none of the current offerings actually qualify. Ambi slide release and - this is my favorite - NO FINGER GROOVES. Stock night sights, etc. The requirement of no finger grooves means they're having to come up with something different than the current production Gens 3 and 4.

    Does it mean that they'll completely change anything to make a Gen 5? Not necessarily, but I'm betting they do more than knock the finger grooves off the Gen 4 mold.

    We'll have to see. And for the compact or service-size single-stack 45, we'll wait MUCH longer. I bugged them for a good decade before I figured out it was futile, and that was a pretty good while ago.

    See, I want a double stack....Basically the G30 with a grip length the same as the 19.

    Hmmm...I like the finger grooves....but I know a lot of people don't. Hope they do something like M&P for the ambi slide release. I have to cut the left side slide stop lever off of all my Glocks b/c the way I grip the pistol up high with my support hand means the slide doesn't lock back on an empty mag. If they do the ambi slide release like S&W did....it'd be cool....b/c then I'd still have the lever on the right side...but if they design it like the HKs or Walthers....then you can't cut the left side off at all.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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