Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?
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Thread: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

  1. #1
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    I found some for pretty cheap (for brass cased ammo anyway). Anyone used either (or even heard of Jack Ross?)? Both are factory new...not remanufactured.

    I know Aguila is made in Mexico....how's the quality? Most importantly is it reliable? Secondary would be accuracy and how clean it is with cleanliness being not very important to me. Mainly this is cheap practice ammo for me....but if the SHTF, I may have to use it for defense.

    Just curious if anyone's had any experience with either.

    Sean

    ***EDIT*** Nevermind on the Jack Ross....it's copper plated, not jacketed. Okay, anyone used the Aguila?
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  2. #2
    Jack A Sol
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    whats wrong with copper plated?

  3. #3
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack A Sol View Post
    whats wrong with copper plated?
    If it's not thick enough, polygonal rifling will eat though it and deposit copper similar to leading. Since I own almost exclusively polygonally rifled bbls (glocks, HKs, etc)....you risk clogging the rifling and having overpressure issues.

    We'd seen this on my friend's G30 (can't remember which brand of ammo it was now).....but we didn't have any over pressure signs on the spent cases (luckily) but after a Glock armorer looked at his bbl, he said not to use the plated rounds anymore. Supposedly CCI in the Blazer Brass line up uses plated projectiles with no known issues....but their plating must be quite a bit thicker than this other brand my friend was using. Since I don't know the quality/thickness of the plating "Jack Ross" uses.....I'd rather not gamble. Besides, the Aguila is cheaper anyway.

    Speaking of copper washed/plated porjectiles, a similar thing happened with the first Xtreme ammo in 6.8 SPC from Art at SSA......it was a copper wash and it left obturated rings in some bbls that did lead to some overpressure problems (of course at that point, this was the SAAMI spec 6.8 SPC chamber so who knows how much of the problem was attributed to the old incorrect chamber spec and the copper washed projectiles).

    Sean
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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  5. #4
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00000160520
    why would copper plating of .010 thickness get shaved off any differently than a copper jacket of .0625 (1/16")?

    the polygonal rifling does not have any sharp edges. they are actually very very smooth and rounded over unlike cut rifling.

    The problem with the xtreme bullets was not the plating it was the sharp angle of the chambers that were shaving off copper. those bullets actually shoot very nicely in some peoples guns.

    Also I'll note that a "copper wash" is something very different than a plating process. plating is electrochemically bonded to the core. Actually many major top line bullet makers use the plating process to jacket thier bonded bullets because it is so consistent and bonds the jacket to the core. Most modern "bonded" bullets for handguns are plated projectiles. Gold dot is one of the more well known ones.

    In truth there is really nothing wrong with plated bullets assuming they are made correctly. most makers are actually moving away from the old jacketing process due to lead issues. totally encapsulated bullets are more range friendly and dont throw jackets when they hit steel backers.

    It sounds to me like someone is feeding you some mis-information. I've personally fired THOUSANDS of rounds of plated thru a glock with little to no cleaning of the barrel with ZERO issues or any weird build up. Plated ammo is GTG IME. Remember that I work closely with an ammunition manufacturer who uses this stuff extensively.
    Jack,

    First, thanks for correcting me on this....I did some more research after reading your comments and you are correct that a lot of higher end mfgs use copper plating now instead of jackets. I was also using the terms "washing" and "plating" incorrectly as you mentioned....they are not the same.

    As to your question about why .010 wouldn't come off where .0625 would:

    Copper washes and copper jackets are made from various copper alloys. Even though there are ASTM guidelines, the copper/copper alloy can differ. Different alloys will have different hardness properties as well as different thickness. It stands to reason that if the alloy is too soft coupled with being too thin, that it could come off in the rifling of the bbl.

    I can only tell you what I witnessed....I didn't do any empirical, scientific tests.....all I had to see was copper plated ammo leaving not only plating in the bbl of my friend's G30 but also leading. Simply put, in the case of this particular brand of copper plated ammo.....the plating was too thin and/or too soft. It came off when you shot it in the gun.

    I'll agree with you on the Xtreme ammo....though I qualified my statement with the fact that the tight chambers likely had as much to do with it.

    Washed vs. plated.... I honestly can't say with 100% certainty what process was used on my friend's ammo as I don't remember for sure what the box said....but I think it stated that it was plated. The armorer is the one who used the term washed (he never saw the box though), but he used the terms interchangeably which is likely where my "mis-information" came from. I'd never heard of "copper washed" ammo before talking to him though, so I'm assuming that's where I got it from. The plating on this particular brand did not come off by scratching on the projectile like it should have it were just washed...I remember that we tested that.

    Now, back to the original topic at hand: Do you have experience with Jack Ross's copper plated ammo? If not, I'll pass. Why? B/c in my experience with cheap copper plated ammo (which Jack Ross seems to be) I've seen issues where it comes off in the rifling of the gun....and just as it's not recommended to shoot lead projectiles through polygonal rifling, it's safe to say that it's not recommended to shoot plated or washed copper projectiles that may be too thin/too soft and leave it in the bbl. Granted, that may have just been a quality control issue on a few cases of my buddy's ammo but, since I don't know anything about Jack Ross ammo (whole point of the thread) and no one so far has spoken up with experience, I'd rather just get the Aguila or Federal, etc. for slightly less to slightly more in price rather than gamble.

    Sean


    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  6. #5
    Newbie jack ross's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    Hello, I am the owner of Jack Ross Ammo, and let me just say that there are no issues with copper plated bullets. If there was, I wouldn't be in business very long. I have sold countless thousands of rounds of copper plated bullets with no issues. Several ranges in California sell my ammo to customers with all kinds of pistols with, again, no issues. You can buy and shoot copper plated ammo with confidence.

    Chris
    www.jackrossammo.com

  7. #6
    Newbie jack ross's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    B/c in my experience with cheap copper plated ammo (which Jack Ross seems to be)

    My bullets are from X-treme, and its not cheap copper plated ammo. Here is a review:

    http://www.minutemanreview.com/2011/...on-review.html

    or you can goggle other reviews.

  8. #7
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack ross View Post
    Hello, I am the owner of Jack Ross Ammo, and let me just say that there are no issues with copper plated bullets. If there was, I wouldn't be in business very long. I have sold countless thousands of rounds of copper plated bullets with no issues. Several ranges in California sell my ammo to customers with all kinds of pistols with, again, no issues. You can buy and shoot copper plated ammo with confidence.

    Chris
    Hold up a sec.....you can easily state there's been no issues with YOUR copper plated bullets. But you cannot say there are no issues with ALL copper plated bullets with any sort of certainty.

    Glad to see you stop by and give your endorsement of your product. If I have any "leading" issues with your ammo, will you issue a refund (after I send back any offending lots)?

    Hmmm....how'd you find this thread anyway? (Pretty sure I already know).

    Sean
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  9. #8
    Newbie jack ross's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    I use google alert. Its a cool service that tracks selected key words. I'll do better than a refund, I'll send you a box free. And after you shoot it, maybe you could post a review? Send me your address via private message and I'll get a box out to you. Thanks.

    Chris

  10. #9
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack ross View Post
    B/c in my experience with cheap copper plated ammo (which Jack Ross seems to be)

    My bullets are from X-treme, and its not cheap copper plated ammo. Here is a review:

    http://www.minutemanreview.com/2011/...on-review.html

    or you can goggle other reviews.
    Thank you for the correction....though your ammo is very reasonable in terms of cost (i.e., cheap) which is why I questioned it seeing as I had no experience with it personally nor had I ever heard of it.

    Sean
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  11. #10
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Use Aguila or Jack Ross .40 S&W Ammunition?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack ross View Post
    I use google alert. Its a cool service that tracks selected key words. I'll do better than a refund, I'll send you a box free. And after you shoot it, maybe you could post a review? Send me your address via private message and I'll get a box out to you. Thanks.

    Chris
    VERY kind of you to offer.....but I didn't post this to get something free out of you....I was just trying to find information about your product. I can't make any promises, but I'll consider your ammo before making my purchase decision. Honestly, it will likely come down to price....the Aguila is about $12 per K cheaper and I'm planning to get 2K at least. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but I'm unemployed and have been for far too long, so I have to make the most of my money right now.

    Sean
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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