Is this even legal or is it harrassment by the ATF? - Page 2
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Thread: Is this even legal or is it harrassment by the ATF?

  1. #11
    Expert wombat338's Avatar
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    The law is indeed stupid. However, a company in a highly-regulated industry, with harsh penalties for violations, is wise to carefully comply with even the stupid laws.
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    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  2. #12
    Expert Mechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted Jester View Post
    @Mechanic The reason the rules are so scattered about, complicated, and sometimes fairly vague is so that everybody is a criminal. The reason the Supreme Court decided that cops aren't required to know the law is because the only other option was to *GASP* simplify the law so that the sheeple can follow the law, and nobody wanted to do that.
    I'm in favor of the one law system, Don't be a dick.

    I think you give them too much credit. It all reads like a high-school drop out comes up with this shit. A capture of in-coherent thought. Like the rules made while playing a game of quarters. Hmmm... maybe they're all so f'ing board they're throwing back shots of Jack..."wait, wait...wait, I've got one!".
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  3. #13
    Expert Mechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat338 View Post
    The law is indeed stupid. However, a company in a highly-regulated industry, with harsh penalties for violations, is wise to carefully comply with even the stupid laws.
    And if there weren't those that were willing to wade through the cesspool, none of us would have a way to exercise the 2nd. It's an ongoing fight on an unfair field of battle.
    "Don't Tread On Me!"
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  5. #14
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyChryst View Post
    So Stag got visited in July and August and problems were found. They got a return visit in September and when they apparently hadn't fixed the problem, they had 300 or so receivers confiscated. Now it's making news because the gov't is seeking forfeiture on 1/3 of them.

    Apparently, manufacturers are required to serialize within 7 days of manufacture of a receiver. I think we all know as soon as proper holes are drilled, it's beyond 80%. We also know you'd serialize before finishing. The excuse? The person who does the serials is on vacation? For 3 months? I'm applying right now!

    Are we all safer thanks to the efforts of the feds here? I know I was losing a lot of sleep. But is it really that hard to serialize properly? This just doesn't sound like oversight or sloppiness. This kinda seems intentional on the part of Stag. Unless the first visit(s) did not involve the feds telling anyone of the violations they found.
    "Shall not be infringed" pretty much means the feds don't have any right to regulate arms anyway.
    mjorin likes this.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  6. #15
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    Sure it does Sean, as long as it's a "reasonable" measure, for the common good.

    You know, like requiring identificaton to vote.
    Do you really think we want laws to be observed? We want them broken. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be crimes that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants law-abiding citizens? Pass the kind of laws that can’t be observed, enforced, or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.

  7. #16
    Marksman bigern's Avatar
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    The "common good" may come to the point where anything is possible. It certainly won't involve the feeding of 300 million Americans. Robots are going to do 90% of the jobs now occupied by humans. Non essential personnel will be allowed to expire along with the non essential farms. Civil crackdown will not be necessary to achieve this end. A famine can be arranged with whatever cover story they desire. It won't matter a few months later. Fighting will be sporadic until the food runs out. Russians resisting the soviets in the 20's were never able to sustain themselves out in the woods. They would sneak back into town for food and the locals would turn them over to the NKVD to get extra rations for themselves.

    The US public have a wild card the Russians didn't. Ignorance combined with a sense of entitlement. This dangerous combo will provide a highly unpredictable and volatile mix, which properly focused post event will prove to be an iron blade. It will cut and smash its way through anything in the way, regardless of the damage it receives in return. It will continue in a sweeping stroke until it strikes home against the anvil waiting to forge it into something even more effective. Vengeance.

    “Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible.” – The Impact of Science on Society (1953) by Bertrand Russell, p.50
    Last edited by bigern; 05-25-2015 at 10:22 PM.
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  8. #17
    Marksman hoppes-no9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyChryst View Post
    So Stag got visited in July and August and problems were found. They got a return visit in September and when they apparently hadn't fixed the problem, they had 300 or so receivers confiscated.
    ...
    This kinda seems intentional on the part of Stag. Unless the first visit(s) did not involve the feds telling anyone of the violations they found.
    Sounds like they run a pretty loose ship.

    I work in a tightly regulated industry (pharmaceutical R&D). FDA audits and inspections are the norm. When the FDA finds something amiss, a prudent company promptly takes corrective action and puts plans in place to ensure the offenses don't recur.

    There is nothing that pisses off Federal regulators more than being ignored. If they give you an opportunity to fix the problems and find you haven't done so, they drop the hammer.

    Apparently Stag hasn't figured that out yet.

  9. #18
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoppes-no9 View Post
    Sounds like they run a pretty loose ship.

    I work in a tightly regulated industry (pharmaceutical R&D). FDA audits and inspections are the norm. When the FDA finds something amiss, a prudent company promptly takes corrective action and puts plans in place to ensure the offenses don't recur.

    There is nothing that pisses off Federal regulators more than being ignored. If they give you an opportunity to fix the problems and find you haven't done so, they drop the hammer.

    Apparently Stag hasn't figured that out yet.

    Or....conversely, Stag may have the audacity to believe the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is the supreme law of the land; not the whims of an unelected, federal bureaucracy. Or, far more likely, they have incompetent management like many US corporations.
    Bravo, Mechanic and mjorin like this.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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