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Thread: New Sig P320 X-Carry

  1. #11
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    I'm confused? I thought about a year ago this forum had a detailed discussion about the piss poor quality of Sig pistols. The SEALs dropped them, the secret service had longevity issues. I also thought we had some insight from Benjamin who used to work for them. Something about an East German sewing machine factory CEO coming in and making SIGs as cheaply as possible?

  2. #12
    XCR Guru Bravo's Avatar
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    If it makes any difference, that's what I thought too. No desires to gamble my own money.....

  3. #13
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    I'm confused? I thought about a year ago this forum had a detailed discussion about the piss poor quality of Sig pistols. The SEALs dropped them, the secret service had longevity issues. I also thought we had some insight from Benjamin who used to work for them. Something about an East German sewing machine factory CEO coming in and making SIGs as cheaply as possible?
    That's what I was talking about. The problems trace back to when Sig first set up shop in the US mostly to fulfill all those military and US federal government orders. By and large, there have been no issues with sales to consumers since. Of course, there are the odd ones here and there with problems. EVERY manufacturer have that, even Glock.
    Fool-proofing serves only one purpose: identify bigger fools.

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  5. #14
    XCR Guru Merlin's Avatar
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    Don't drop it................................

    New Handgun Chosen by U.S. Army Goes Off If Dropped



    New Handgun Chosen by U.S. Army Goes Off If Dropped

    Civilian versions of the Sig 320 fail the so-called "drop test," but the military version appears unaffected.

    TexasWarhawk/CC BY-SA 4.0
    By Kyle Mizokami

    The handgun chosen to be the U.S. Army's next generation handgun can fire if dropped while loaded. Tests conducted by gun bloggers has confirmed the gun will fire if dropped at a particular angle. The testing followed a multi-million dollar lawsuit by a Connecticut police officer who alleges he was injured after his Sig 320 handgun went off, critically injuring him.

    The Sig Sauer P320 was declared the winner of the U.S. Army's Modular Handgun System competition in January 2017. The P320, redesignated the M17 for Army and Air Force use, was picked to replace the Beretta M9 handgun, in use since the 1980s. The Army will issue the M17 to officers, aircrews, weapons crews, medics, and special operations forces. The M17 is chambered in 9-millimeter Parabellum and has a magazine capacity of 17 rounds.

    M9 pistol at U.S. Army training range. The M9 will be replaced by the new Sig P320.
    Army Reserve Lt. Col. Adam Collett

    In recent days, rumors emerged on the Internet that the P320 was not "drop safe"–that is, it would fire if a round was loaded into the chamber. The same action cocks the pistol, and at that point, if the trigger is pulled the weapon will fire. Most modern handguns are "drop safe" in that, if accidentally dropped from waist-high level with a round in the chamber, they will not accidentally fire.

    Sig Sauer claimed that the gun had been extensively drop tested, but a report emerged that a Connecticut police officer had been injured by his P320 after it had been dropped while in his holster. That officer has now filed a $7 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer, alleging that the gun has an defective safety mechanism. Last week the Dallas Police Department suspended use of the P320 citing drop test concerns. Gun blogger Andrew Tuohy, in a video for gun retailer Omaha Outdoors, drop tested several versions of the Sig P320 and discovered all but one version would fire if dropped tail-first. Here's the video:

    Tuohy's tests were followed up by The Truth About Guns, which came to the same conclusion. It's important to point out that the P320 passed drop tests, including those by the state of California, that test if the gun will go off dropped on its side or nose-first. Still, the manner in which it can be dropped is not unusual. As TTAG noted, "We were concerned that that we might have to construct a fancy jig to get the P320C to fall in the Omaha Outdoors-identified orientation. As it turned out, when the pistol is held by the forward corner of the trigger guard, with the normal weight of an inserted magazine, the P320C balanced in the exact way necessary to land on the top rear of the slide when dropped." The gun fired in 3 out of 7 drop tests.

    For its part, Sig notes that it has sold 500,000 P320s since their introduction in 2014, with only four reported negligent discharges by law enforcement. After the Omaha Outdoors and TTAG articles came out, Sig Sauer quickly issued a "voluntary upgrade" notice for civilian owners of the P320 that introduces a trigger that requires less weight to pull. In Tuohy's video, he noted that of the several 320s he tested the only handgun that would not go off if dropped was the one with the lighter trigger pull. Interestingly, M17 pistols destined for military use reportedly already have this new, improved, lighter trigger.

    It's unclear how this might affect the Modular Handgun System program. While the M17 won't have the same drop problem, that the handgun had such an easily replicable problem that went undiagnosed by the manufacturer could give the Army pause. The U.S. Army told the Kit Up! blog, "it is inappropriate for the Army to comment on matters of pending litigation.
    "

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  6. #15
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Odd that a "lighter" trigger is less susceptible to drop firing than one with a higher weight trigger.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  7. #16
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Odd that a "lighter" trigger is less susceptible to drop firing than one with a higher weight trigger.
    Less weight, less momentum. thefirearmblog got theirs to fire without dropping. What I mean is they simulated a drop by smacking the back of the side with a mallet and got their P320 to fire. Sig initially claimed it's drop safe. What they didn't say is it's drop safe IF tested to a set of criteria (supposedly devised by the LAPD). Now they've issued a "voluntary upgrade" and then said they've already addressed this in the HMS design.

    So clearly, they KNEW about this and kept quiet. Worst, they've handled it poorly by issuing a "voluntary upgrade" instead of a full-on recall. Another major screw up by Sig. But, they'll still make crazy money so don't count on them learning from this.
    Sean K. likes this.
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  8. #17
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Ohhhh....you mean the trigger physically weighs less. I thought they meant the pull weight was lighter.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  9. #18
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Ohhhh....you mean the trigger physically weighs less. I thought they meant the pull weight was lighter.
    Yah, I thought the same too when I first heard of it.
    TexasChris likes this.
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  10. #19
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    I'm not buying any of Sig's shit until they prove they've cleaned up their QC. I let others test their stuff.
    Merlin likes this.
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  11. #20
    XCR Guru Merlin's Avatar
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    "Breaking: SIG Sauer Issuing Voluntary Upgrade on P320 Pistols"

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/sig...-p320-pistols/

    "Be Vigilant and Safe!!"
    "Molon Labe!!"
    "It Is A Weak Man Who Urges Compromise!!"

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