B&T .308....looks awfully familiar. - Page 2
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Thread: B&T .308....looks awfully familiar.

  1. #11
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Don't deny that....but I do highly doubt that even with RA making the superior product to what was offered at the SCAR trials that it would have been awarded the contract b/c FN Herstal was already supplying the M4s (along with a lot of other small arms) to the .mil and most contracting is very political.

    Also, I don't see Alex being willing to license the design out to other manufacturers and he wouldn't have been able to keep up with the contract size without doing so...and it's entirely likely that I'm wrong and he'd be willing to do so...I just don't see it based on limited experience dealing with him directly.
    Point taken. I still like the platform. And as a fan of it, would like to see it pushed further and take the next step. Isn't it funny how the US military is now all Sig all the time?
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  2. #12
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G2 View Post
    Everybody is weight conscience these days! The AR guys are always talking about 4lb AR’s. Cost is also a big issue these days. While dang near every other firearm is dropping in cost, the Xcr is still at the very top of the price range. It’s competing with POF, Noveske and some other top tier manufactures. And honestly does not have near the reputation as the others....
    Yeah...I think the weight thing is a trade off for durability. Is it warranted? I don't know. Likely depends on the severity of the conditions faced. And price? Definitely an issue. It's what most of the "next gen" carbines go for...so in that market, it's competitive (other than the fact that it's not well known), but compared to an AR....I mean BCM and POF's Constable are down at the $1-1.3K price point....and are excellent, reliable rifles that are very lightweight.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  3. #13
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
    Point taken. I still like the platform. And as a fan of it, would like to see it pushed further and take the next step. Isn't it funny how the US military is now all Sig all the time?
    I don't know that it's funny or sad. Though I've owned several Sigs over the years...never been a huge fan. Their marketing team seems to be spot the fuck on though.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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  5. #14
    G2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    I don't know that it's funny or sad. Though I've owned several Sigs over the years...never been a huge fan. Their marketing team seems to be spot the fuck on though.
    It’s funny with sig. the 556 and 7.62 had major failures.. and yet there is a huge following. Personally I have never been a fan. For me, the lack of support and spare parts precluded me from ever investing. Holy shit! Sounds like us with the Xcr

  6. #15
    XCR Guru navalbeaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
    Point taken. I still like the platform. And as a fan of it, would like to see it pushed further and take the next step. Isn't it funny how the US military is now all Sig all the time?
    The MCX has lots of similarities to the XCR. Expensive, hard to find individual parts, blurry lines on when updates occurred, spotty customer service, etc.

    I really like the 1913 stock attachment and, even though the handguard isn't as robust, the mcx style gives you much more flexibility than the XCR. Factory triggers are comparable.

    The XCR wins in controls, multi caliber options, gas adjustability and "fun to shoot". I much prefer shooting my xcr to my mcx.

    I'll have to get weights later but I think similarly equipped, the xcr is slightly heavier.

    ETA:
    6.75" 300blk MCX, original wire stock, lancer CF handguard troy sights, no muzzle device. 6# 2.5oz
    7.5" 300blk XCR, shaved rail ("custom" from tactaylor), MCX adapter with wire stock, troy sights, Q muzzle device and magpul offset light mount. 6# 5.5oz

    at that weight, with the couple of extra bits on the XCR with a slightly longer barrel.... I'd say weight is pretty close if not the same. The MCX barrel is the old style. The virtus barrels have a heavier profile. FWIW
    Last edited by navalbeaver; 09-12-2019 at 06:48 PM. Reason: weights
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  7. #16
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    I don't know that it's funny or sad. Though I've owned several Sigs over the years...never been a huge fan. Their marketing team seems to be spot the fuck on though.
    Marketing is a big part of it. Look at Glock. Now just about every manufacturer has polymer framed striker fired offerings. Some even dismissed Glock in their early goings. It's not enough to have a good product if no one has heard of you. *cough Insulting existing and potential customers isn't productive either.
    Last edited by fmunk; 09-12-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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  8. #17
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navalbeaver View Post
    The MCX has lots of similarities to the XCR. Expensive, hard to find individual parts, blurry lines on when updates occurred, spotty customer service, etc.

    I really like the 1913 stock attachment and, even though the handguard isn't as robust, the mcx style gives you much more flexibility than the XCR. Factory triggers are comparable.

    The XCR wins in controls, multi caliber options, gas adjustability and "fun to shoot". I much prefer shooting my xcr to my mcx.

    I'll have to get weights later but I think similarly equipped, the xcr is slightly heavier.

    ETA:
    6.75" 300blk MCX, original wire stock, lancer CF handguard troy sights, no muzzle device. 6# 2.5oz
    7.5" 300blk XCR, shaved rail ("custom" from tactaylor), MCX adapter with wire stock, troy sights, Q muzzle device and magpul offset light mount. 6# 5.5oz

    at that weight, with the couple of extra bits on the XCR with a slightly longer barrel.... I'd say weight is pretty close if not the same. The MCX barrel is the old style. The virtus barrels have a heavier profile. FWIW
    The MCX's AR charging handle is a bit of a deal breaker to me. But, I understand why they kept that AR feature because of they know their audience. To get rid of it, would be like Ford making a new Mustang that isn't RWD.
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  9. #18
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navalbeaver View Post
    The MCX has lots of similarities to the XCR. Expensive, hard to find individual parts, blurry lines on when updates occurred, spotty customer service, etc.

    I really like the 1913 stock attachment and, even though the handguard isn't as robust, the mcx style gives you much more flexibility than the XCR. Factory triggers are comparable.

    The XCR wins in controls, multi caliber options, gas adjustability and "fun to shoot". I much prefer shooting my xcr to my mcx.

    I'll have to get weights later but I think similarly equipped, the xcr is slightly heavier.

    ETA:
    6.75" 300blk MCX, original wire stock, lancer CF handguard troy sights, no muzzle device. 6# 2.5oz
    7.5" 300blk XCR, shaved rail ("custom" from tactaylor), MCX adapter with wire stock, troy sights, Q muzzle device and magpul offset light mount. 6# 5.5oz

    at that weight, with the couple of extra bits on the XCR with a slightly longer barrel.... I'd say weight is pretty close if not the same. The MCX barrel is the old style. The virtus barrels have a heavier profile. FWIW
    Yeah...I'd guess they are really close on weight...especially if you factor in the longer bbl on the XCR.

    I think my 10.5" XCR-L was within 10 oz. of my BCM 11.5 or POF 10.5" constable....but that's largely b/c that particular XCR has a Shockwave Blade and the other two have the SB3A braces...and that's several ounces difference. But...all in all, for what it offers in compactness with the folder 10 oz. ain't really much of a penalty.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  10. #19
    Newbie Willy-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    B&T APC308 Semi-Auto Pistol | 14.3" Barrel

    Not sure the link will work.
    Are you thinking the XCR-M ?

    Sorry, kind of an obscure reference I am not getting.

    I think its more of a VOLKSWAGON and PORSCHE comparison myself.

    The BnT looks blocky and heavy.

    BnT: B&T .308....looks awfully familiar.-bnt_308-1090675.png


    XCR-M:
    B&T .308....looks awfully familiar.-xcr_ma-1090682.png

    To me the BnT APC looks like a FINNISH copy of the XCR-M. The modern Finn weapon designers just do a blocky utilitarian no-nonsense IT WORKS approach.
    Last edited by Willy-D; 09-15-2019 at 12:59 AM.

  11. #20
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Hmm...I posted to this thread yesterday...and now it's gone. Odd.

    Basically agreed that the B&T looked like an unfinished, unrefined -M. I wonder if the fact that I said it looked like it ripped off RA is what got it deleted. Are the site mods that worried about lawsuits? Probably just a glitch in the matrix and Hanlon's Razor applies.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

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