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  1. #41
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    He said tightness on the gas block. But maybe he meant gas tube. But I asked to clarify and he said gas block is the second contact point. He also said the Nato Chambers on the .308 didn't help. They went to commercial.
    Well, the fix for 'accurizing' an early type 2 -M is to replace the gas tube with a much tighter fitting one....which makes me think that's the 2nd point of contact, not the upper. Also, if it was contacting the upper, then it wouldn't technically be free floated, though I think it's debatable how much that influences things on this platform.

    4" of flex overall seems too high...though the bbl whip under high speed photography is pretty insane to watch out of an AK; I don't think it approaches close to 4". I'd guess a .308 would be even more pronounced......and the longer the bbl, the more whip as well as the higher the frequency/flex. No idea really....
    Last edited by Sean K.; 01-23-2020 at 12:04 PM.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  2. #42
    XCR Guru navalbeaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    PCC from Robinson will look like a XCR, but shorter. Uses Glock mags. Should also be available in 10mm. It will be a gas gun, so should run smoother than everyone else blow backs. Fast stock, same controls. Something new with the barrel, but I can't say what. Maybe $1300
    Hopefully that change is specific to the XCR-P(?) but I wouldn't be surprised if RA "updated" the L and M with the new barrel retention. If so, hopefully it's backwards compatible so we don't have to start over with a new barrel extension.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    Alex also said that on the rifles they have two contact points. The retaining bolt and the type 3 gas block. I noticed on my 300 BLK that the gas block fit super tight. He claims that second contact point AIDS in accuracy.

    Alex also said that the original muzzle brake on the XCR-M was causing the barrel to droop 4 inches when fired. They had it on high speed photography. Does that seem possible?
    Alex had mentioned barrel flex in the early Ms but 4" does seem excessive. That's when the went to the 3 chamber, symmetrical, brake. They did tighten up the tube/block interface for the M enhancement but I've seen varying degrees of tightness on the type 3 with the Ls. Some of the gas tubes had to be tapped in, others dropped in no problem. I've had to get creative with removal on a couple, got some paracord through one of the holes to be able to pull it out. The varying tolerances/generations on the tubes and uppers doesn't help with consistency. There's also the first gen type 3 that had the lip on the back end of the block instead of the straight extension that interacted with the tube more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Well, the fix for 'accurizing' an early type 2 -M is to replace the gas tube with a much tighter fitting one....which makes me think that's the 2nd point of contact, not the upper. Also, if it was contacting the upper, then it wouldn't technically be free floated, though I think it's debatable how much that influences things on this platform.

    4" of flex overall seems too high...though the bbl whip under high speed photography is pretty insane to watch out of an AK; I don't think it approaches close to 4". I'd guess a .308 would be even more pronounced......and the longer the bbl, the more whip as well as the higher the frequency/flex. No idea really....
    I always thought the "free float" was what you wanted but if the two points shoots better?....

    Either way. Very interested in the PCC. Not thrilled about the glock mags but I understand it. The scorpion mags seem to becoming pretty popular but the time involved to build the PCC version probably means they weren't in the running a couple years ago.
    Sean K. likes this.

  3. #43
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    That Alien pistol is badass! Feels great in the hand. Super low bore axis. Great trigger! Sights and barrel don't move.
    $5k, no way. I told them as much. They're cutting their own throats!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shot show 2020-img_20200123_164918170_1579831589196.jpg   Shot show 2020-img_20200123_164656544_1579831604751.jpg  
    Sean K. likes this.
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  5. #44
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Ran into a couple of fellows who are trying to resurect Hudson. Had a great chat. We'll see.
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
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  6. #45
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    That Alien pistol is badass! Feels great in the hand. Super low bore axis. Great trigger! Sights and barrel don't move.
    $5k, no way. I told them as much. They're cutting their own throats!
    Yep...at that price point, it's going to be limited.

    But...they get it down to $2K or even 3...they might move a boatload since a competition/race gun is going to run about that anyway.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  7. #46
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Brownells made a new receiver for the AR-180. ALL AR, except no buffer tube, just picatinny rail to replace the buffer. Gives a fellow some options on a folding stock.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shot show 2020-img_20200123_122512909_1579831862571.jpg   Shot show 2020-img_20200123_122415841_1579831880491.jpg   Shot show 2020-img_20200123_122438703_1579831905936.jpg  
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
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  8. #47
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    Brownells made a new receiver for the AR-180. ALL AR, except no buffer tube, just picatinny rail to replace the buffer. Gives a fellow some options on a folding stock.
    What did you think of the overall quality of the BRN-180? It looks interesting....but not sure I want to buy one sight unseen.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  9. #48
    XCR Guru fmunk's Avatar
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    If you have time, can you check out the M+M M10X? Looked promising when announced several years ago, but no one talks about them any more. I still like it a lot. Takes AK mags.
    https://www.mm-industries.com/m10x/ Attached picture (not mine) shows a short handguard version in FDE.



    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    That Alien pistol is badass! Feels great in the hand. Super low bore axis. Great trigger! Sights and barrel don't move.
    $5k, no way. I told them as much. They're cutting their own throats!
    From what I read today, most people have not been reading the full release. $5k is for the initial release of X number of launch edition pistols. That is, you get a full kit with fancy case and maybe some accessories. Either way, they'll sell some because there are people out there with the means and just want to be that guy who is the first on the block to have the newest shiny object. As for whether the market can support a $5k pistol? Look no further than the market for custom/race 1911s.

    Quote Originally Posted by navalbeaver View Post
    I always thought the "free float" was what you wanted but if the two points shoots better?....
    Been decades since my physics classes in high school and college. But, IIRC, free floating isn't the only way. Free floating allows the barrel to flex to its own inherent harmonic frequency (which is determined by length, material make up and temperature). Since barrel length and material doesn't change between shots, it's always going to flex roughly the same... and that consistency is what gives you repeatable results (i.e. "accuracy"). Barrel flex is like series of sine waves. Between the peaks above and below the bore axis there are these nodes where the wave pattern intersects the bore axis. If you add a contact point along the barrel that isn't where these nodes are, you are interfering with how the barrel wants to flex. So the trick is figuring out where to have these contact points. Or, the easy way, you brute force it by bracing the hell out of the barrel by adding stiffness between the contact points (like that device made for Mini-14s, name of which escapes me). This is probably what RA did with their fix, since it's less complicated than relocating the gas block... consequently changing port sizes and a whole host of other things.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shot show 2020-83445009_2701894233223986_4436467888374677504_o.jpg  
    Last edited by fmunk; 01-23-2020 at 10:33 PM.
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  10. #49
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    The Alien pistol does come with a case with a railed slide top, three magazines, and some other crap.
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
    The antidote for fifty enemies is one friend.--Aristotle

  11. #50
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    The last booth I visited was M+M . The M10X is very nice. It has improved since I saw it 4 years ago. Fit and finish are much better. Great controls, more like an AR. Three pound crisp trigger. Monolithic upper. Charging handle can be swapped side to side, but reciprocates. Three position gas afjustment. Three lug bolt, very similar to the XCR bolt. Uses AK mags. Barrel is easy to replace. The guy told me 2-3 inch groups with wolf. 1.5 inch with good ammo. I really like this rifle. Sorry, I didn't get a picture, they were trying to close up.
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
    The antidote for fifty enemies is one friend.--Aristotle

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