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Thread: Hello and hope everyone is well

  1. #21
    XCR Guru TomAiello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    65.7% of the people who went on ventilators in Wuhan DIED. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763184 The article is from Feb. 13 (read the "Abstract" for dates)...I've read more recent reports that 95% of people who went on vents in Wuhan died. Vents don't seem to be the panacea for this the medical community would have us think. The anti-virals seem to be the most effective in terms of treatment. Those at highest risk should self isolate, we need to be able to test for CVD-19 at will, and we need to be able to buy anti-virals without overly burdensome trials & across borders in contrast to current laws that make pharmaceuticals a monopoly...and then we need to get back to work. A vital economy is necessary to fund all the health related necessities that such a pandemic will require.
    The truly communistic approach would just be to say "everyone back to work now" and just let the serious cases die off. That might actually be the best case for society in the intermediate term, but I'm personally a little too in touch with my humanity to advocate that approach. I'm honestly surprised that China didn't go with it, though. It does sound like that's the direction the White House is headed, though.
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  2. #22
    XCR Guru TexasChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Personally, I think this was handled all wrong...

    From not locking down our insecure border (which should have been secured decades ago precisely for this reason as I often stated, as well as terrorist threat AND illegal immigration), to not cancelling all flights in and out of the US in late January.....to now shutting down everything in hopes of "flattening the curve". We are burning the village to save it and not thinking through the ramifications.

    For instance: fuel. "Oh, it's essential"....so they're going to keep producing....EXCEPT....if no one is driving to work, there will be an over supply of gasoline. When you refine oil, you don't just pull out diesel for the trucks moving goods across the country, you also have to pull out kerosene, jet fuel, gas, etc. What do you do with the excess no one is using? You put it in tanks for consumption later. But, there's no room left in the tanks to keep refining...so you have to shut down. No more diesel. How do goods get to market without that diesel? "Uh...shit!".

    We're doing it wrong, IMO.
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  3. #23
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    How in the hell do you guys get out of bed? What's the worst that could happen, death? I guess if that's all you've got, you better get right with the big guy upstairs.

    When David faced Goliath, did he whine like a pussy? No he spoke about how great GOD is!

    Meet your maker however you like. But, the world has seen worse.

    Even if I'm wrong, at least I'm not going to kill myself with stress. I wish you all the best.
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
    The antidote for fifty enemies is one friend.--Aristotle

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  5. #24
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAiello View Post
    If you expect that (and I do) you can do some things to prepare. We're clearing debt and creating credit lines on real estate so that we will be in a position to buy when we think we're near the bottom. If we can establish credit lines based on current values that will be a lot of down payments on depressed values 9 months or a year from now.
    Thinking the same thing....just depends on whether or not the economy allows us to keep our jobs.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  6. #25
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAiello View Post
    The truly communistic approach would just be to say "everyone back to work now" and just let the serious cases die off. That might actually be the best case for society in the intermediate term, but I'm personally a little too in touch with my humanity to advocate that approach. I'm honestly surprised that China didn't go with it, though. It does sound like that's the direction the White House is headed, though.

    I don't think it can be seen as communistic unless you were ORDERED to go back to work. We should be able to choose. Communism has been lauded as being able to lock down entire cities in China for example in ways the US could not because of our BoR. Supposedly these forced lock downs are responsible for finally halting the exponential spread of the disease there.


    This will sound harsh, but it's pragmatic. We're all going to die....eventually.

    If you're already ill or aged or have pre-existing health conditions, you're much more likely to die from this disease...and those people should basically be able to hole up, get promising anti-virals and have supplies delivered.

    If the government can't pay the hospital system through increased debt b/c the financial institutions can't/won't lend the money and our credit rating takes a hit b/c we effectively have no GDP....hospitals close down. Then where are we?

    What if we run out of diesel b/c of the refining constraints I mentioned and we're now dealing with starvation on a mass level?

    I don't see we have a lot of other options.
    Last edited by Sean K.; 03-24-2020 at 01:26 PM.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  7. #26
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    How in the hell do you guys get out of bed? What's the worst that could happen, death? I guess if that's all you've got, you better get right with the big guy upstairs.

    When David faced Goliath, did he whine like a pussy? No he spoke about how great GOD is!

    Meet your maker however you like. But, the world has seen worse.

    Even if I'm wrong, at least I'm not going to kill myself with stress. I wish you all the best.
    You sound more stressed than I am. I'm gaming out potential problems....potential solutions and advocating directions that make the most sense after analyzing the facts.

    As Patrick Henry said, "For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it."

    You don't do that by burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  8. #27
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    I'm not stressed, I am prepared as always.

    I am concerned with people having no hope. It will cause them to do terrible things.

    I'm still out here providing care as is my wife. We took oaths and plan to abide by them. That is all I can do, except pray and encourage people to do good.
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
    The antidote for fifty enemies is one friend.--Aristotle

  9. #28
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    I'm not stressed, I am prepared as always.

    I am concerned with people having no hope. It will cause them to do terrible things.

    I'm still out here providing care as is my wife. We took oaths and plan to abide by them. That is all I can do, except pray and encourage people to do good.
    I don't see anyone here "without hope" though....just discussing potential ramifications of public policy.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  10. #29
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Fair enough. Happy to hear it
    Sean K. likes this.
    "Spes Mea in Deo Est"--My hope is in GOD
    The antidote for fifty enemies is one friend.--Aristotle

  11. #30
    XCR Guru TomAiello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjorin View Post
    How in the hell do you guys get out of bed? What's the worst that could happen, death?
    Death of your loved ones. Followed by quadriplegia.

    I pretty much get out of bed the same way everyone else does. At least I assume that's how everyone does it.
    Sean K. likes this.
    - Tom Aiello
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    ...I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

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