Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor? - Page 2
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Thread: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

  1. #11
    XCR Guru variablebinary's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    Pinnacle is not to be trusted.

    They were labeling their armor as NIJ certified when it really wasn't. In addition, for armor, it's just too complex for its own good. Armor held together by an adhesive is concerning as well. Their armor has so many components that QC is hard to maintain.

    BALCS + SAPI is a proven formula that has saved lives. I was just watching a vid a couple of weeks ago where an embedded journalist took an AK round to the chest while wearing IBA and was 100% fine other than being shaken up.

    I'm actually shopping for armor as well, and will be getting a MOLLE plate carrier ballistic vest. Meaning the vest alone without plate will stop 9mm rounds.
    "Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert Barrow, USMC (1980)
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  2. #12
    Marksman Trip5896's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by variablebinary View Post
    Pinnacle is not to be trusted.

    They were labeling their armor as NIJ certified when it really wasn't. In addition, for armor, it's just too complex for its own good. Armor held together by an adhesive is concerning as well. Their armor has so many components that QC is hard to maintain.

    BALCS + SAPI is a proven formula that has saved lives. I was just watching a vid a couple of weeks ago where an embedded journalist took an AK round to the chest and was 100% fine other than being shaken up.
    I recall reading about the NIJ cert thing and wasn't it given to them first, then yanked after the army testing fiasco, then given back again?

    They also make Level V armor which apparently you can only get certified for if you work with the govt. to obtain the highly restricted ammo types with classified specs for testing.

    Lots of things don't add up...

    I just picked up a decent multicam plate carrier made by Rhino Armor on eBay with Kevlar XL front/back/side/arm/shoulder panels for about $500. It's rated to stop a .44 mag at point blank. Not too shabby.

  3. #13
    XCR Guru variablebinary's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip5896 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by variablebinary View Post
    Pinnacle is not to be trusted.

    They were labeling their armor as NIJ certified when it really wasn't. In addition, for armor, it's just too complex for its own good. Armor held together by an adhesive is concerning as well. Their armor has so many components that QC is hard to maintain.

    BALCS + SAPI is a proven formula that has saved lives. I was just watching a vid a couple of weeks ago where an embedded journalist took an AK round to the chest and was 100% fine other than being shaken up.
    I recall reading about the NIJ cert thing and wasn't it given to them first, then yanked after the army testing fiasco, then given back again?

    They also make Level V armor which apparently you can only get certified for if you work with the govt. to obtain the highly restricted ammo types for testing.

    Lots of things don't add up...

    If you are sold on it, roll with it. Keep in mind, if anything nutty goes on with your glued together armor you'll have to suck it up and drive on. It's only your ass and your entire PMC team you have to worry about.
    "Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert Barrow, USMC (1980)
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  5. #14
    Newbie goober413's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    the army did not lie. they just put it threw a worst case scenario testing cycle. in the army we are hard on everything that we have. they took the armor from extreme heat to cold multiple times to simulate tropes getting on a C-130 strait out of the blazing hot sun and taking them up to a cold altitude (ive been on plenty of c-130's with the heating not working it sucks). the only thing that failed was the adhesive that held the disk plates together so they all fell to the bottom of the vest.

    with all the tests it was the adhesive that failed to hold the armor disks where they should be so that is why it failed the army tests. Now i bet if they reworked their adhesive so that it would hold up to those tests, then i bet the army would buy them for air crews and tankers

    now I'm not a pro dragon-skin person so don't think I'm defending them, I'm just pointing out some facts, but i do think the technology that dragon skin is trying to do is a good idea. being more flexible will be a great improvement to and battle field environment. but we have to remember not to sacrifice protection for flexibility.

  6. #15
    Marksman Trip5896's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    The way I look at it is, wouldn't Pinnacle Armor face numerous massive lawsuits and having their NIJ certification ganked if their armor really didn't work?

    And honestly, how realistic were those tests? Sub-zero temps to over 100 degrees multiple times before the adhesive failed? Seems like they were looking for any reason to fail it and the test was designed to exploit the only possible weakness in the system. After all, the damn SAPI plates say "Handle With Care" LMFAO I know idiots who dropped and cracked theirs, rendering them useless (the plates, not the idiots). Why not just put a warning on the Dragon Skin panels that says "Do not expose to extremes of heat directly to cold or vice versa multiple times". Seems like a more rugged system with a very limited and specific potential weakness.

  7. #16
    Newbie goober413's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    for civilian use it will be fine. however for the military not so much, the only way to get our body armor over to the middle east is to fly with it. so it sits in the bottom of the plane, were it gets cold. then hits the ground in the middle east and now its hot. doing this multiple times with make the adhesive fail.

    As for the plates we are using now you are right they do break. that's because they are made out of ceramic covered in Kevlar.

    there will never be a perfect body armor for every situation. There will always be drawbacks to it as there is with everything else in combat. some equipment works well under certain conditions and not in others. the bottom line is you have to work with what you got.

    if you are going to be buying your own body armor, for what ever reason, get studies from multiple testing facility's not just manufacturers in house tests of military tests. fined an out side source that has nothing weighing on the outcome of the test. this is how you will fined out the true results. or if you have the money do your own tests on the equipment in the environments that you will be using it in.

    just remember whatever you choose, your life is literally on the line as to the decision.



  8. #17
    Marksman Trip5896's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    When I deployed, we had our Interceptor vests with our carry on gear in the passenger compartment. That'd be an easy fix for a system that can take more than the 3-5 hits a SAPI can before failing. Or just send a shitload of the Dragon Skin panels over on a cargo ship and issue it in Kuwait, totally avoiding the aircraft scenario.


    And of course HALO jumping in an SF ODA wearing Dragon Skin from 40,000 ft. into a desert at high noon in mid-summer for a direct action mission would NOT be advisable. :duh:

    Marrandy: here's what the president of Pinnacle sent me if you didn't see the download in an earlier post. 20 rounds all rifle.
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  9. #18
    Marksman Trip5896's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    Right on. I agree with what you were saying, just thought you hadn't seen the multi-rifle round tests. Seems pointless, but I guess they're trying to say that even after getting chewed up with the high-powered stuff it'll still maintain enough integrity to stop lesser threats. *Shrug*

  10. #19
    Expert moosedaddy's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by SDDuc996 View Post
    I can say that when this stuff started showing up, the guys here were starting to ask questions and showing a lot of interests. There was testing done and our command said a big HELL NO to it. I cannot remember the specifics of the testing, only that the Team guys were forbidden (i.e. SGLI goes bye bye if you take a hit wearing it) from wearing it in combat.
    The big Hell No is from the failure to stop bullets and fragments from penetrating the skin. The layered plates seem like a good idea until you realize that you can penetrate it by shooting it at steep angles. Sort of like when heavy winds get under your shingles on your house and blow half the roof off... Same basic concept. I was in Dubai a couple years ago and you should have heard the comments about it from the big brass ... not impressed...Point blank still makes a pretty good and effective vest. I have an Interceptor and it is really nice. Even has the plate to protect your junk! (important) haha ha
    Little boys do what they want. Real men do what they're supposed to...

  11. #20
    Expert moosedaddy's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody own/know someone who owns Dragon Skin body armor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Underground View Post
    Being susceptible to salt water damage I wonder how it fares with daily wear and being soaked with sweat at times?

    I think a while back we were discussing this and someone mentioned that it was also vulnerable to bullets burrowing up in-between the plates if you were shot at a low angle.
    That was me. We were involved in some of those tests with our own product. Ours worked great, it just was too cost prohibitive.
    Little boys do what they want. Real men do what they're supposed to...

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