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Thread: THE 300 Blk XCR

  1. #201
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricCartmann View Post
    I have seen some scary monkeys at the zoo too. How is slapping my mouth shut changes anything? At the end of the day they are still monkeys and EC is still a degreed Engineer with the slap or no slap.

    Also there nothing wrong with monkey work. All work is good work! EC believes that just because some monkeys eat bananas everyday and very good at it, and EC does not eat bananas that much, does not mean eating bananas are that complicated.

    Part of being a brilliant Engineer is asking questions, and following a logical flow. EC is just trying to understand why a .458 will not work with the XCR-L. And why is this so complicated? In ECs views, it seems this could easily be put together with minor fitting. If it can easily be done on an AR15, why not a XCR-L?

    This we know:
    -.458 SOCOM is AR-15 action length (the L is AR-15 action length)
    - .458 SOCOM uses a .308 bolt head. (M has a .308 bolt head, can't use this on the L?)
    - the specs and the loads for the .458 are published (so no work needed here)
    - the chamber specs for .458 SOCOM is published, and reaming barrels for an AR or XCR Barrel-Extensions is no different between calipers.

    only thing EC sees is minor fitting of parts and drilling proper size gas port holes to make sure it has proper cycling.

    one thing EC does understand, is even simple stuff will not get done if we do not want to do them. Not wanting to do something is a perfect valid excuse for not completing a task. So if RobArms, does not want to mess with .458, then I don't blame him. However, I am sure there are plenty hobbyist like EC that will work on this project for free, and provide RobArms with all the data results.

    In short, why is this such a roadblock? Please Discuss.....
    And yet, the XCR is not an AR, nor is it built by multiple manufacturers with legal patent authority and plans to do so. If you can't understand that, I'm afraid that as bright as you think you are....no one can help you understand any further.

    You know the worst kinds of engineers?....the ones that don't know, but think they do. That's you in a nutshell on this one EC. No one has claimed it can't be done in an L....they've all said the same thing....it would take a major redesign and deviation from the standard that would likely not be profitable. Companies don't do things (generally) that aren't profitable. Maybe you should get a business degree next?
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  2. #202
    Expert wombat338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricCartmann View Post
    I have seen some scary monkeys at the zoo too. How is slapping my mouth shut changes anything? At the end of the day they are still monkeys and EC is still a degreed Engineer with the slap or no slap.

    Also there nothing wrong with monkey work. All work is good work! EC believes that just because some monkeys eat bananas everyday and very good at it, and EC does not eat bananas that much, does not mean eating bananas are that complicated.

    Part of being a brilliant Engineer is asking questions, and following a logical flow. EC is just trying to understand why a .458 will not work with the XCR-L. And why is this so complicated? In ECs views, it seems this could easily be put together with minor fitting. If it can easily be done on an AR15, why not a XCR-L?

    This we know:
    -.458 SOCOM is AR-15 action length (the L is AR-15 action length)
    - .458 SOCOM uses a .308 bolt head. (M has a .308 bolt head, can't use this on the L?)
    - the specs and the loads for the .458 are published (so no work needed here)
    - the chamber specs for .458 SOCOM is published, and reaming barrels for an AR or XCR Barrel-Extensions is no different between calipers.

    only thing EC sees is minor fitting of parts and drilling proper size gas port holes to make sure it has proper cycling.

    one thing EC does understand, is even simple stuff will not get done if we do not want to do them. Not wanting to do something is a perfect valid excuse for not completing a task. So if RobArms, does not want to mess with .458, then I don't blame him. However, I am sure there are plenty hobbyist like EC that will work on this project for free, and provide RobArms with all the data results.

    In short, why is this such a roadblock? Please Discuss.....
    Good points. I'm not an engineer, and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. If the -M bolt could be fit to the -L carrier, that would solve one problem. However, when last we looked at this, someone measured and figured that the ejection port would need to be widened too much, to the point where the feed rails would have to be relocated, requiring a redesigned upper receiver. Not sure how to overcome that issue.
    “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” -- James Madison

  3. #203
    Banned EricCartmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    And yet, the XCR is not an AR, nor is it built by multiple manufacturers with legal patent authority and plans to do so. If you can't understand that, I'm afraid that as bright as you think you are....no one can help you understand any further.

    You know the worst kinds of engineers?....the ones that don't know, but think they do. That's you in a nutshell on this one EC. No one has claimed it can't be done in an L....they've all said the same thing....it would take a major redesign and deviation from the standard that would likely not be profitable. Companies don't do things (generally) that aren't profitable. Maybe you should get a business degree next?

    EC does not need to know anything. EC never feels he is that smart, EC is just grateful he does not have to be that smart, because everyone else are bigger losers than EC. EC succeeds because everyone else are slackers! So EC is very grateful for the slackers, makes ECs life much easier. EC has been an All Star wherever he has worked.

    SEAN-K Is so Smart!

    It seems you do not think .458 SOCOM will work with the XCR, your mind is already made. Why does it need major work? I would think everything on an existing L would work, except use an M bolt head. Also just need to make sure the barrel extension is in the correct location for proper headspace, but this is the same thing that is required for all guns.

    i am just here to learn. Please discuss....

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  5. #204
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricCartmann View Post
    EC does not need to know anything. EC never feels he is that smart, EC is just grateful he does not have to be that smart, because everyone else are bigger losers than EC. EC succeeds because everyone else are slackers! So EC is very grateful for the slackers, makes ECs life much easier. EC has been an All Star wherever he has worked.

    SEAN-K Is so Smart!

    It seems you do not think .458 SOCOM will work with the XCR, your mind is already made. Why does it need major work? I would think everything on an existing L would work, except use an M bolt head. Also just need to make sure the barrel extension is in the correct location for proper headspace, but this is the same thing that is required for all guns.

    i am just here to learn. Please discuss....
    So stop typing, use some of your excess funds to buy a CNC and go at it. Otherwise, you're just flapping your jaw.

    And for the record, I never said .458 couldn't be made to work with the XCR....simply that it's not a simple "minor fitting of parts" (nor is it likely economical).
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  6. #205
    Banned EricCartmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat338 View Post
    Good points. I'm not an engineer, and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. If the -M bolt could be fit to the -L carrier, that would solve one problem. However, when last we looked at this, someone measured and figured that the ejection port would need to be widened too much, to the point where the feed rails would have to be relocated, requiring a redesigned upper receiver. Not sure how to overcome that issue.

    When it comes to guns, none of us are Enginners. The Engineering for guns has already been done 100 years ago. Nothing really innovative about guns these days.

    Finally! Someone explains why it can't be done. This is how discussions should go... However this can't be done on gun forums... Because on gun forums everyone is so smart! So smart that they can't discuss anything, just hand out personal insults. Which is why EC loves gun forums!

    As for the ejection port width. I measured the width of the ejection port for the L and an AR and width wise, both are the same size. Is the jettison angle of the XCR that much different? One of the original selling point of the XCR is positive extraction, so does an AR naturally eject better?

  7. #206
    XCR Guru mjorin's Avatar
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    Here we go again! Yipee!
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  8. #207
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Ya, we had essentially the same discussion what, 6-8 weeks ago? https://www.xcrforum.com/forum/7-gene...te-robarm.html

    Only difference then was it was about EC telling us all how easy it was to do .300 BLK in the XCR. Apparently, anytime PurpleNurple tells us something as someone that actually works at RA, EC is going to debate it. Must be a penis envy thing.....

    Sure is easy to claim one can fix any firearm problem and never be actually forced to do so.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  9. #208
    Banned EricCartmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    So stop typing, use some of your excess funds to buy a CNC and go at it. Otherwise, you're just flapping your jaw.

    And for the record, I never said .458 couldn't be made to work with the XCR....simply that it's not a simple "minor fitting of parts" (nor is it likely economical).

    SeanK, I can help you!

    First you wanted to hit EC in the mouth because you were offended that Monkeys eat Bananas. EC tried to help you, I told you can hit me in the face for saying this and I promise NOT to hit back. EC wants SeanK to feel good about himself!

    It seems through this whole process, you do not want to discuss the subject... all you want to do is Hate on EC for whatever reason.

    EC does not need to buy any CNC machine.

    And to make it clear... EC already has a .300 BLK rifle, and a .450 Bushmaster Rifle, and both work perfectly fine. EC also has an XCR that shoots both 556 and x39. EC does not need an XCR kit for .458 SOCAM, or .300 BLK because EC already has a rifle that does what both does. Be nice if the .458 SOCOM or .300 BLK were available, but EC himself does not need it.. and to make it clear, EC has no Interest in the .458 SOCOM whatsoever because EC already has a .450 Bushmaster... but regardless, still be nice if both were available.

    The Bottom Line: You seem to think the .458 is NOT a minor fitting issue, while EC thinks it IS a minor fitting issue. The main difference between you and EC is, You do NOT want to discuss the "minor fitting issues", all you want to do is hand out personal nsults and physical threats, while all EC does is want to discuss it.

    oh and just so SeanK can can feel better about himself, EC will say this.. "SeanK is so smart! and he is such a tough guy! He is our Hero".....

    see? EC is here to make SeanK feel good about himself!!!!

    Please Discuss...
    Last edited by EricCartmann; 11-23-2014 at 11:52 PM.

  10. #209
    XCR Guru Sean K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricCartmann View Post
    SeanK, I can help you!

    First you wanted to hit EC in the mouth because you were offended that Monkeys eat Bananas. EC tried to help you, I told you can hit me in the face for saying this and I promise NOT to hit back. EC wants SeanK to feel good about himself!

    It seems through this whole process, you do not want to discuss the subject... all you want to do is Hate on EC for whatever reason.

    EC does not need to buy any CNC machine.

    And to make it clear... EC already has a .300 BLK rifle, and a .450 Bushmaster Rifle, and both work perfectly fine. EC also has an XCR that shoots both 556 and x39. EC does not need an XCR kit for .458 SOCAM, or .300 BLK because EC already has a rifle that does what both does. Be nice if the .458 SOCOM or .300 BLK were available, but EC himself does not need it.. and to make it clear, EC has no Interest in the .458 SOCOM whatsoever because EC already has a .450 Bushmaster... but regardless, still be nice if both were available.

    The Bottom Line: You seem to think the .458 is NOT a minor fitting issue, while EC thinks it IS a minor fitting issue. The main difference between you and EC is, You do NOT want to discuss the "minor fitting issues", all you want to do is hand out personal nsults and physical threats, while all EC does is want to discuss it.

    oh and just so SeanK can can feel better about himself, EC will say this.. "SeanK is so smart! and he is such a tough guy! He is our Hero".....

    see? EC is here to make SeanK feel good about himself!!!!

    Please Discuss...
    Dude, I didn't want to hit you. I love EC! I was just warning you about the scary "apes" (b/c monkeys aren't big or mean looking even though a chimp can rip your arms off and beat you to death with them ) that probably wouldn't enjoy your air of superiority. I'm a fairly non-violent person. I wasn't threatening you in the slightest. I'm sure with your mad play fighting skills (even if you're a novice) you could still whip my ass. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

    You've got it backwards, bro. I don't want to hate on EC....I would prefer EC not "hate" on PurpleNurple for no real reason other than you find it fun picking on the only RA "unofficial" rep willing to drop by and give his insight. I'd also "prefer" you not denigrate an entire working class of people, but you're you and that's how you are. No changing that I suppose.

    Now, you may be completely right that .458 SOCOM will fit in the -L with very little modification. I do not pretend to even have an inkling of knowledge saying yes it will or no it won't, but I see no reason to suspect that PN would blatantly lie about it, so I tend to believe him. This is the second thread where you've essentially questioned his honesty without any real reason.

    I'm sure that with enough time and money, one could make it fit....but it may require some pretty extensive (IMO) mods to get it to work in an L. If you would like to undertake such an endeavor to prove him wrong, then by all means...go for it! I'd love to see how well you fair and what it actually costs you to do (or have done b/c I'm pretty sure as brilliant as you claim to be, you have limited CNC experience yourself, if you have any at all). Now I realize you spent a lot of time making up a disclaimer to say you don't want a .300 BLK or .458 SOCOM XCR, you just want to discuss the possibility. Great way to get out of my "put up or shut up" challenge! Eh...or not so much.

    If all you want to do is "discuss" the theory...what else do you have to put forth? No one else seems to think it's going to be easy enough to do that they're espousing the details...other than yourself....and you've pretty much limited it to gas port sizes, some extensions and whalla, it's finished! If you want to discuss it, go for it!

    My point is simply that you went about your questions for details like an ass (IMO). You could have simply asked for more details and debated the answers if you felt strongly enough that it could be done with minor fitting. Instead, you've basically taken the tack that it's super simple but as yet have provided little technical discussion as to how it would actually be accomplished. You've asked questions about the ejection trajectory that no one here so far is able to answer...and I would wager that most of your other speculation about the machining required, would be just that....speculation from an uneducated viewpoint since I don't believe you have much, if any, machinist (or monkey ) background from which to form a relevant opinion or strategy to accomplish the end goal.

    If you're asking questions that no one really has enough insight into the platform or the machining process to accurately answer, you're just flapping your jaw (again, IMO). Feel free to see it differently or please explain why this line of questioning will be productive without any reasonable expectation of accurate answers.
    Last edited by Sean K.; 11-24-2014 at 09:57 AM.
    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants; the creed of slaves."-William Pitt the Younger

  11. #210
    Banned EricCartmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean K. View Post
    Dude, I didn't want to hit you. I love EC! I was just warning you about the scary "apes" (b/c monkeys aren't big or mean looking even though a chimp can rip your arms off and beat you to death with them ) that probably wouldn't enjoy your air of superiority. I'm a fairly non-violent person. I wasn't threatening you in the slightest. I'm sure with your mad play fighting skills (even if you're a novice) you could still whip my ass. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

    That's so sweet of you! worrying for me like that. Where have you been the other 40 years of my life??? I am touched now knowing that I am loved and there is a person looking after me.

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