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XCR will never be elevated to battle rifle status like the FAL until it can go 2000 rounds without a cleaning. :'(
Check out my review. Well over 2K, no cleaning necessary. This was with Winchester white-box 55gr FMJ.

Even so, the XCR-L can't be "elevated to battle rifle status", as it's a carbine. If you want it to become a battle rifle, you're going to have to wait for the XCR-M, like I am.
it's all symantics to me, assault weapons, battle rifes, sporters, etc... I don't get to technical. I think you know whay I meant, if not I can explain further.
 
Technically, to be a battle rifle the gun must be chambered for a rifle cartridge (i.e. .308, .30-'06, 7.62x54R, .303, etc.). Assault rifles are chambered for intermediate cartridges (7.62x39, 8mm Kurz), or subcaliber cartridges (.223) if you really want to muddy the water.

It's nit-picking, but nevertheless that's the accepted terminology. When you say battle rifle the first thing I think of is an FAL or G3. Assault rifle and you think MP44, AK47, or M16. When I first started shooting these sorts of guns I got lectured repeatedly about this sort of thing (and magazine vs. clip). After enough of that, it's hard to resist "paying it forward" on terminology.

More to the point, fouling is probably causing the light primer hits. Sometimes you do run into design issues (like with the AUG), but generally it's just crud tying up the works. New gun + marginal ammo = issues. I've had the same thing happen with bolt guns (Steyr PII) with primer sealant building up in the firing pin channel. A quick cleaning cures it (or, in the case of the AUG, a switch to the A2 firing pin). It might be something to watch in the XCR, but I haven't had any issues, but I'm not shooting Wolf either. Still, I'll be switching to Wolf primers here soon when my present stocks of SR primers run out. That should be interesting.
 
A good design should shrug off primer laquer.

Back when the FN brass was available, I bought it by the small pallet load ;D It was as well built as Lapua, but at $70 per thousand delivered (sometimes on sale $10 less!). Granted, it was berdan primed, but the flash holes were drilled (not punched), the head was cut (not pressed into shape), etc. The primers were staked in and laquered, so it was GREAT primed brass - ideal for 'fire and forget'.

I loaded a slew of that brass up with AA2520 (good powder, but fairly dirty) and 175 Sierra Match Kings - that ammo went to a course with me. The striker would hit the primer, knocking loose all that red primer laquer - so much so that my magazine well looked like a teenage girls unicorn glitter poster had been shoved in there.

That rifle never missed a tick, the trigger components never changed pull weight due to debris, and it was as reliable as the days were long - and trust me, those were some LONG days. The only cleaning was scrubbing the barrel, swabbing the gas cylinder & piston, and using compressed air to blow off the optics. Yeah, things were so dirty, seeing through optics was problematic at times. I guess every couple of days I'd hit the bolt face with a toothbrush, but just lightly.

That was with the M14 platform. I've run thousands of rounds (literally - see my review on the other site) through my XCR without cleaning (same as above, just to see if it could take it) or lubrication with absolutely no problems.

Then again, I only buy wolf in the commie calibers. Maybe the ammo had something to do with it, beyond the primer laquer.
 
cartman wrote..
"XCR will never be elevated to battle rifle status like the FAL until it can go 2000 rounds without a cleaning."

Why is this exactly besides it being carbine length ? Can an AR10 or M14 go 2000 rounds without a cleaning ? and probably 20 other battle rifles that fought wars throughout history.

Kinda silly statement considering the US Military and many others using direct impingement Stoner systems can't or will not go 2000 rounds without a cleaning.

so FAL's and Ak's are it ?? who else gets your stamp of true Battle Rifle? :duh:
 
Edited to delete: I'm not getting suckered into this one. My experiences (with what HAS already run 2K without cleaning OR LUBE) are of no consequence. This'll wind up being a pie fight regardless.
 
My questions and comments are just my opinion and I'm sure everyone Else's are the same.

I'm not starting shit I'm just asking a question.

Hell I'm a gun enthusiast not a military weapons expert.

Bravo.... who's suckering you into a discussion? and I have no reply except maybe questions to clarify what you may say.
 
'Zoid dudeski, my comment wasn't aimed at you, it was in support of you.

The facts are that I've had the opportunity to test several weapons - and I still have many of them I tested.

On another site, about 2 years ago, I documented when I passed the 2000 round count on my XCR with no cleaning OR LUBE. No worries.

I've done the same with a '14 - NO LUBE or cleaning either one.

My FAL doesn't like to be run dry, and that's a fact. It's reliable as all get-out, and one of my favorite rifles, but it requires wetness. Not cleaning, but wetness. As long as the black gunky sludge is a little slippery, it's good-to-go.

Therefore, if '2000 rounds without cleaning or lube' is the criterion upon which we'd pass judgement of what is a good battle rifle (or a good battle carbine in the case of the XCR) then the M14 is better than the FAL, and the XCR is better than the FAL too.

Luckily, I don't use those criterion alone to base my decisions upon.
 
Normally I believe in lube on my weapon(s). Of course that means "dry" lube in the desert & artic. Since I don't have those conditions (thank you Lord) in Alabama, it's lube before I fill the tube. Lube keeps parts wear to the minimum. No reason to push your luck by shooting dry. :2cents:
 
Ok about this time in the conversation I normally would have a comment
about always using proper Lubrication....but I won't go there. ;D

someone in SigForum has in his tag line... If ya Love It ..Lube it !

I agree.. :tiphat:
 
And normally I agree. The reason I did such was to prove to myself what these things were capable of.

If I know it'll do X rounds without a malf, then it's a matter of easily keeping the lube on there.

If I know it'll only do Y mags without lube, I know I've got to pop the hood on SOMEONE's car and 'borrow from the dipstick' at one quarter that amount (assuming I'm out of oil in my pouch or some such).
 
If you are in a life or death situation you can always piss in the action. Smells like hell...... but it works til lube is available. Also reminds you to put a small bottle of lube in your grip. ;D ;D ;D
 
cartman wrote..
"XCR will never be elevated to battle rifle status like the FAL until it can go 2000 rounds without a cleaning."

Why is this exactly besides it being carbine length ? Can an AR10 or M14 go 2000 rounds without a cleaning ? and probably 20 other battle rifles that fought wars throughout history.

Kinda silly statement considering the US Military and many others using direct impingement Stoner systems can't or will not go 2000 rounds without a cleaning.

so FAL's and Ak's are it ?? who else gets your stamp of true Battle Rifle? :duh:
;) :D

Each day in the house of Cartmann, the XCR gets more respect.

I have never had problems with my XCR. But I was kinda hesitant about the ruggedness of the XCR with all the failed reports by Pat Roger (3 out of 3). Mainly I was worried about the extractor, barrel, and gas plug bolts staying put and coming loose when I needed my weapon the most.

I have not thoroughly put my XCR through the ringer. The most my XCR has gone through in one range session was 300 rounds... and I had no problems. I am liking and am trusting the XCR more and more as the days go by. I loctited my gas plug and extractor bolts and I have no doubt it will hold up. I think with the XCR all you have to do is peridoically check for tightness and it will be good to go for a SHTF/insugency/rebel weapon.

In real life I am NOT a weapons but I do play one on the Internet. I like the fact that after 300 rounds my XCR stayed relatively clean. When I open her up, I see the action is very similiar to the AK, this right there gives me the confidence the XCR will have AK like reliabilty, that if she gets a lil dirty she will just laugh it off and continue to fire.

I have no problems with the idea of going thousands of rounds between cleans, but for the most part I keep my weapons clean because I don't like the idea of my weapon sitting in the safe for months at a time with all that powder and gunk in there. When the SHTF, most likely I probably will forget my weapons cleaing kit. I like having the peice of mind of knowing my weapon can go extended period without cleaning and will still fire when dirty. I trust the AK and FAL can do this... and slowly I am thinking the XCR can do this too. I had an AR go 1000 problem free american eagle rounds, so I also would not have a problem grabbing an AR for a SHTF situation, but it would not be my primary choice. I just don't like how dirty the AR gets after shooting it. Even shooting as little as 50 rounds the AR gets very dirty and it is quite a task to clean it (the weapon just shoots dirty). When you shoot 300 rounds with the FAL, AK, and XCR you only need to wipe it down when cleaning.

Speaking of FAL... my FAL also has not gone more than 300 rounds between cleans, but I trust the FAL the most because of 1) Ole Dirty and 2) because each time I do clean it, it just needs a simple wipedown and it is good to go. The lengend of Ole Dirty is not a myth and she is very real. She was thrown in muddy waters, soaked for a good half hour, then taken out and proceeded to put lead down range. 14,500 rounds later and still yet to be cleaned, she is still going strong.

Edit to add: I still don't understand the AR piston craze. An AR was not designed from the ground to run a piston. A piston added to an AR is like putting a band aid on it. The XCR on the other hand was designed from the basemet up to work with a piston.

So to answer your question... yes, for reliability I trust the AK and FAL the most. YMMV.

[FLAME_SUIT_ON]
 
Unless there have been two more failures at Pat Rodger's courses, it is still really limited to the one guy who seemed to have every thing loose. Pat stated on TheHighRoad.org that two of the guys decided not to even shoot their XCR's and went to their M4's before the class began.
 
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