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Discussion Starter #1
Thanks to Nate for helping me acquire this one.

I'm mainly doing a brief write up to help me remember which mags had issues. I have 12 dedicated 6.5G mags....11 are ASC 25 round and one is a curved old stock Cproducts that came with the gun. I plan to try and run the Unimags with it as well at some point.

Today was literally nothing more than a function check. I put a Primary Arms Cyclops on it in the low ADM mount to give cowitness with Troy Micros I had laying around. I didn't zero the optic or even use the irons. Just shooting an IDPA size target at 25 yards or less....

I only brought mags 1-6.

3, 4 & 5 all exhibited one failure to feed (nose sort of heading into the chamber, bolt trying to close on the neck). I had that happen 2 times on mag #4, but only once on 3 & 5. None of these mags locked back on empty....I just cleared the malf and loaded/shot the dinged up round.

By contrast mags 1,2 & 6 all ran 100%, no issues, locked back on empty.

I ran mags 4, 5 & 6 first, consecutively doing mag dumps. Let the gun cool down and shot other stuff I brought, then ran mags 1, 2 & 3....in those orders. So 3 stoppages on the first two mags (4 &5)....then 6, 1 & 2 ran 100%. Then mag #3 had a failure to feed and didn't lock back on empty as 4 & 5 had failed to do.

I am thinking the gas may not be high enough and could be causing this problem. I've seen it on my x39 9" with the Type 3 block...if I don't have the gas turned high enough....the Unimags will have issues feeding like that (though the 30 round curved Cproducts work fine on lower gas settings...so the problem isn't really the gun, so much as the mags. The problem on my X39 with Unimags can be overcome by more gas at the cost of increased recoil).

I was chucking spent casings on setting 7 about 15-20 feet. Certainly not what I'm used to with that high of a gas setting. I didn't turn it down as I figured 6 mags is only 150 rounds...it may just need more break in.

The gun feels great when running. I have only shot a few other 6.5Gs....this one seems really tame (I do have a VG6 Gamma .300 BLK brake on it though & the ones I've shot had 3 port brakes)....4-5 tap shots on target at that range were easy. Felt like substantially less kick than my 7.62x39 9" XCR. I am very interested to run it side by side....and with 5.56. The recoil felt more like 5.56 than X39 to me ....of course that might be due to being undergassed (for that high of a gas setting).

Overall, I really like the gun....just hope I can get it running 100%.

I'm planning to eventually try taking this thing out to 5-600 yards with a can on it.



I also recently broke down and bought a Kalashnikov-USA Komrad 12 "firearm". Dude, this thing is AWESOME. I didn't think it would run 1190ish FPS loads. I'd read over and over that it needs 1340+. B/c of the CVD-19 mess, I couldn't get any 00 Buck or anything else, so all I had in my reserves was cheap Federal bulk pack from Wallyworld. I thought it would be single action.

Nope...ran all of it 100%. 7.5 and 8 shot. I think it may run better than my modded VEPR12 on that shit ammo. The factory mags seem to be good to go, but I splurged and spent the money on the CSSpecs 8 round mags (the 10 are just stupid long). I got them mainly b/c they advertised being able to load into a Saiga on a closed bolt. But, if you're thinking you're going to load them that way, you're likely mistaken....at least I couldn't get them to using a conventional grip. Instead I found that if I turn my hand over, in other words....instead of having your support hand's thumb & pointer finger at the top of the mag where the rounds come out, you position those fingers down towards the floor plate end of the mag, then just compress the first round against the bolt a bit, catch the lip on the mag on the shelf in the front of the mag well and rock it in. You can use the same method to load the factory mags on a closed bolt.

Recoil was more tame than out of the VEPR too for some reason....might be that the SBA3 brace is wider than the RA XCR stock I mated to the VEPR I have. Having shot my buddies VEPR a lot with the factory folding stock, I'd say it's not any better in terms of recoil than mine with the XCR stock.

I've got the parts to put a folder on it and drop in an ALG trigger. The factory one is smooth but very long on both take up and reset. It will only be like 22" folded.
 

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Nice review!
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Outing #2.

Mags 3,4,5 and 10 had the same issues as before once per mag.

I ran 1-11...the others ran fine, but a few didn't lock back on empty.

Ejection is erratic. Sometimes it throws cases 20', others dribble out of the gun.....I think the gas dial ports aren't aligned correctly or it's got the wrong dial.

A friend with a 6.5G AR ran mag #4....no issues with feeding but failed to lock back (his rifle is known to be undergassed though even with an adjustable gas block opened up all the way).

I'll have to pull it apart and start checking port sizes/alignment before I can definitely say anything about it being the mags or the gun. The fact that the SAME mags had problems makes me think it's the mags....but having spotty ejection makes me question the gas system.

I'll report what I find. Hopefully I posted my Type 3 gas dial sizes for the X39...I'd guess those should be close to the same as 6.5G.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Stock from Rob Arms Type 3 Dial Port Sizes 6.5G with 11" bbl:

7=.082"
6=.076
5=.070
4=.067
3=.064

I don't have calibrated gauge pins for the smaller sizes....drill bit wise they are apparently smaller than .040 thou.

Seems like it has the wrong dial.
 

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Very interesting! And that sucks! Any idea what caliber that dial goes with?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Very interesting! And that sucks! Any idea what caliber that dial goes with?
Based on what I'm seeing in the port sizes thread....I think it may be the right dial for a much longer bbl....like the 16" or 18.6" maybe.

I haven't checked the bbl or gas block port themselves though...so it could be that those are undersized.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Oh...and I'm guessing the reason it's so tame is being undergassed. It's odd b/c when I shot it the first time I was by myself and was shooting and moving which meant the spent cases were all scattered out and I only noticed the ones that were being flung what I thought was about 20 feet out of my peripheral vision.

This time I had people watching for ejection distance and some were just dribbling out of the ejection port while others were 12-15 feet away. Granted, this was on setting 7 the whole time both days and I have verified that is the largest port and it does align correctly with the bbl port (assuming the bbl port is TDC on the bbl at 12 o'clock).

I also ran a 10.5" 5.56 XCR-L with Type 1 gas (standard length) and a 9" 7.62x39 XCR-L (mini-length gas in standard upper; buried Type 3 block) for comparison.

The 5.56 is just super smooth....very little, very controllable recoil.

The 6.5G definitely has more kick and isn't quite as controllable, but with the current gas situation, it's pretty easy to get 4-5 round strings on a target at 50 feet no problem.

The X39 has the most recoil of the bunch, but to be fair, I have the gas turned up 1 more position than is necessary to run reliably with the Unimags. If I run the 30 round curved ASCs....I can run it down one setting. I didn't bring any of the curved mags b/c they look stupid, lol.....so I couldn't compare that aspect. While it has more recoil, it's still able to get 2 maybe 3 rounds off really quick before coming off target. Part of that additional recoil might be due to the shorter gas system and bbl length as well (obviously).

Theoretically, the X39 and 6.5G shouldn't require as many follow up shots as 5.56, but I'd guess that depends on shot placement more than anything (as usual), the type of round (40 grain V-max in .223 is pretty devastating at short range) and whether or not your opponent has armor you're having to shoot around.
 

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I've noticed the inconsistent ejection on a few of my xcrs. Several solid with the occasional dribbling out. Maybe it's an extractor/ ejection issue. I've not taken any good data on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've noticed the inconsistent ejection on a few of my xcrs. Several solid with the occasional dribbling out. Maybe it's an extractor/ ejection issue. I've not taken any good data on it.
Yeah, not sure what's causing it as the standard deviation of the ammo types I'm using are supposed to be good. I'm inclined to think it's gas though since the bolt isn't locking back on an empty mag reliably...even on mags that ran 100%. Could be a follower issue in the mag too though...something slightly out of spec.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
In a separate thread here:

https://www.xcrforum.com/forum/15-field/30682-possible-type-0-1-type-2-mod.html

There's been some discussion from InVader (Post #8) with RA direct about my issue with ejection/bolt over base malfs. They said they thought it was the extractor, so I checked that and it appears in spec.

They also said don't go larger than .082" on the bbl port if I'm going to drill it up. Found it to be ~.078" in terms of it being a through hole, but the top face would take the tip of a .082" bit. Drilled it out to the .082" size...left the gas dial in factory size. For dial sizes, go here: https://www.xcrforum.com/forum/15-field/30682-possible-type-0-1-type-2-mod.html Post #26 for 6.5G in 11" bbl. ***EDIT***I also put the sizes below***

3rd time out was today. Brought known good mags and problem mags. Problem mags are still a problem. Good mags ran 100%. Ejection seemed stronger and more consistent with the larger bbl port....but that was at setting #7 and I tried #6 for a while, but the spent cases were only going maybe 8 feet or so on #6.

So, I think I'm going to contact ASC about warrantying the 4 bad mags and see if that cures all the bolt over base malfs. However, I'm still not convinced the gun is gassed correctly. Ejection moved forward to about 2 o'clock on both settings 6 & 7....and before it was more like 3 o'clock. On setting 7....it was throwing brass 15-20' which is fine, but seems not very strong for being at the highest setting. I didn't shoot it a lot on #6, but I'm not sure I'd trust it based on the much weaker ejection.

I'm planning mags first, then run it again and see.....

I may have to end up porting up a bit, I'd probably just do the dial first and not mess with the bbl port since .082" was the max size RA recommended. I'm thinking .093" for the #7 dial setting and #.082 for #6...which is what #7 is currently. Maybe drill 5 up to what 6 currently is.

Just for reference:

Stock from Rob Arms Type 3 Dial Port Sizes in 6.5G with 11" bbl:

7=.082"
6=.076
5=.070
4=.067
3=.064
 

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Discussion Starter #12
4th time out this morning....

Ported bbl port up to .086"....also ported dial.

Position:

7=.086
6=.082
5=.076
4=.070
3=.067

Ejection on dial settings 7 and 6 were strong....5 seemed okay at first...went to 4 and had a bolt over base malf. Dialed up to 5....same problem. Not sure if it's problem mags or still a gas issue.

4 and 5 both seem undergassed still. Problem mags were #7 and #11. Both had bolt over base malfs and failed to lock back on empty.

Noticed that the problem mags I sent in for warranty and these 2 today have a similar oddity....after being fully loaded to 25 rounds and having a bolt over base malf....once I clear the malf and continue on with that mag until empty....the follower will make a popping sound if you press it down into the mag body about 1.5" or so. Mags that worked properly do not exhibit this popping/binding issue when pressing the follower down. Once the "pop" occurs...the follower even in problem mags cycles smoothly by pressing down that same 1.5" or deeper with your finger.
 

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Makes me wonder if RA would be better off with an adjustable gas system like the Kel-Tec RDB and RFB (which is FAL inspired I think?), instead of different sized ports. Would cut down complexity and chance for mix-ups.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Makes me wonder if RA would be better off with an adjustable gas system like the Kel-Tec RDB and RFB (which is FAL inspired I think?), instead of different sized ports. Would cut down complexity and chance for mix-ups.
FAL uses a ringed piston....like POF.

And their ejection isn't nearly as strong as the XCR's. The XCR is a lot more AK like in terms of the strength of ejection....or, overgassed (as some would argue). Personally, that's usually a sign of an ultra reliable firearm though....how far out it's kicking spent cases. Though, the argument that it's beating the shit out of the gun and giving more recoil than necessary could be valid; I just don't see it in the case of the components on the XCR or AK.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
One more thing I need to try on this 6.5G....Unimags versus the ASC dedicated 6.5s. Might even need to try the Elanders...though I hear they have similar feeding issues from time to time. Really like this round though...it's very controllable in rapid fire. Can't wait to get the feeding issues figured out so I can test the accuracy.
 

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FAL uses a ringed piston....like POF.

And their ejection isn't nearly as strong as the XCR's. The XCR is a lot more AK like in terms of the strength of ejection....or, overgassed (as some would argue). Personally, that's usually a sign of an ultra reliable firearm though....how far out it's kicking spent cases. Though, the argument that it's beating the shit out of the gun and giving more recoil than necessary could be valid; I just don't see it in the case of the components on the XCR or AK.
Yah Kel-Tec's is a little different, here's a video. Over-gassing would have some effect on accuracy too, no?

 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yah Kel-Tec's is a little different, here's a video. Over-gassing would have some effect on accuracy too, no?


*Some* effect? Sure....how much? Debatable.

As for the video...seems like the major difference versus the RA Type 3 gas system and this is the allegedly (b/c he didn't take it apart to let us see how that dial/cap works) self-venting cap.

I'm not convinced having that many adjustments is a good thing or that finding a 'setting' for a particular ammo is realistic as it doesn't take into account how dirty the vent cap is, variability in the ammo....looked like Wolf or Tula in the video, or overall how dirty or worn in the gun is.

Can't really make any determination without seeing how that dial/vent cap is designed as to whether or not it's better than the Type 3. I wonder how well the Kel-Tec system would work on something with a shorter dwell time with the bbl port much closer to the muzzle as well.
 
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Good point. Near infinite adjustability is one of those things that sound good on paper but not practical in real use. A bit like those adjustable AR gas blocks that were all the rage not long ago. Specifically tuned soft shooting goes out the door the instant change in ammo or carbon build up occurs (like you said).
 

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I've got an RDB that shoots suppressed pretty well. You've got lots of options, enough to the point where you can get it to cycle slow enough to feel the action cycling the next round. It's one of the "better" adjustables out there but if you're going to run it on the razor edge, it's not going to be as reliable. It shoots soft but it still gets dirty, clearing FTF/FTE is a F^()!ng nightmare and there's still some gas but it doesn't have a direct route to your face. I wouldn't say I trust it for any sort of duty use but it's tons of fun at the range.
 

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Sean, I’m new here and looking to get information about the XCR in 6.5 Grendel. Have you been able to get your 6.5 Grendel XCR running reliably?

I do have experience running 6.5 Grendel in an AR15 and M16. They run 100% using Elander mags in semi and full auto. I’v had a few failures using the Unimags running 6.5 Grendel (which run 100% on full auto in 7.62x39). The 6.5 Grendel upper is setup with an Adams Arms piston system, so it may not represent how it would run with direct gas. I’d definitely try the Elanders if you’re still having issues.
 
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