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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was discussing with some of my co workers the political climate and guns in general. And...the question come about.

If you didn't have a safe for your guns?

You didn't have a combat arm?

or

You didn't have a stockpile of ammunition for your weapon of choice?

If you could only buy one this year. Which? And then what type? How big? How much would you buy? ???

I thought about this as a poll but that cut the human interest factor out. Left this way, we get to see how we think and our reasoning for such. ;D

Help me out...I have no "black rifle". No Ammo for my guns. and no security for the guns I have. ::)

Give me some advice friends.
 

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Broken down by merit.

Ammunition. If it were really needed I could strip it down and make IED's out of it but without a rifle/pistol then it would be useless for its intended purpose.

Combat arm. I'd go with a good pistol. Rifles are nice but your personal defense should start with the closest threat first. But, good pistols cost good money so less to buy any ammo to get proficient and know if it will hiccup when you need it.

Safe. Nothing to put in it otherwise but I do put important papers and other giddy-gabbers in mine so security is nice. This is the preferred method to store anything but there are other ways. Not as good, but workable.


My pick, in order:

Pistol
Ammo
Safe


ETA: Oh, and I'd coordinate with my buds to for mutual support. No sense in overlapping efforts.
 

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Pistol
Pistol Ammo
Rifle
Rifle Ammo (Lots of it!)
A safe

Now as for what I would get: For my rifle I would abviously choose and XCR in 5.56. Then purchase a conversion kit for 7.62x39

AS for a pistol. Nothing less than a 9mm. and brand name will do now a days. But I would prefer a .40 or .45. Ammo for those 3 are readily available and relatively affordable.

Safe sometehign in the 600 lbs. range. It is heavey and very, very strong. about a 30 gun safe would be ideal as you can store plenty of ammo and firearms as well as other important things.

I hope that answers your questions.
 

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I prepped in "layers".

One pistol, one rifle, one carbine, stocked ammo for all three, mags for all three, you get the idea. That was followed with "lather, rinse, repeat" until I got to the point I was happy.

Unless he lives in a bad-bad area, a safe would be my LAST consideration. Duplicates (once obtained) can be placed in a 6" PVC container, well oiled, with some desiccant thrown in and sealed. That goes underground. Hard to steal what you can't find. One pistol shouldn't be a question of being stolen - it should be ON him always (or danged close to always). The most

Magazines are prime right now too - no good having all the ammo and guns in the world without good mags.

I'd say pistol, a few hundred rounds of "good" ammo (not FMJ), a good belt and holster, and a half-dozen mags.
Then a good rifle (or carbine at least), a few hundred rounds, and at least 9 mags.
Shotgun, hundred rounds of slugs and hundred rounds of buck.
Lather, rinse, repeat.

When you've got enough of each (remember: two is one, one is none) then stop buying firearms and focus on mags, ammo - AND GEAR.
Specifically, I'm talking about cleaning gear (I like the Otis stuff for field cleaning gear) and stuff to carry extra mags (rig, vest, whatever).

But that's just me ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
And that's what this thread is all about.

I want your thought's with none of the bull. Every body has an opinion and that is their's only.

I want to know why YOU. The Individual have done or would do what you have.

Thanks for the input. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just for fun. Read this and see if it changes your thought processes. I lived by these for awhile. Maybe that's why I think like I do. I bolded the one's I want you to focus on for this discussion but the other are open to comment.

US Rangers Rules for Gun fighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent
accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."
 

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Bingo.

I standardized on the Glock 17. Why? Because I've got women and children to think about, and 18 rounds of 9mm without reloading (or for that matter, manipulation of anything but the trigger) is GREAT.

Gave the 1911 to the gal to try. I always thought of a 1911 as easy to control - she didn't. At all.

If I were only considering a group of people like me (well practiced at fast reloading, tactical reloads, pistol manipulation, etc) I'd have probably opted for the 1911.

Throw in the fact that a Glock can be taken care of by me as the armorer (parts swapping is different than parts fitting!) with an inexpensive set of spare parts (easier maintenance for the less "gun inclined" as well) and the 9mm was the winner.

Although I personally hated to see the 1911 relegated to "in addition to" status. At least for now.

As far as stocking up, I've settled on the magic number of 4 as pertaining to firearms. Enough for everyone in my family to pull one of everything, plus a full set in reserve. 4 Glock 17 pistols, 4 XCR in 5.56, 4 Remington 870 shotguns..... you get the idea. When we get into sniper rifles and 50BMG weapons, I've only got one of each though, because they're "specialty" weapons. It's not like the odds are I'm gonna hand a 50BMG to someone who shows up at the party without party favors! Unless one of my group shows up without his that is ;D

As far as ammo goes, 6K is my magic number, all premium ammo. Obviously shotgun ammo is a bit less, and 22LR is significantly more.

Mags: 65 for rifles or carbines, 24 for pistols.

One vest per longarm. I'm big on the Molle vests for just such a reason - last purchase was 80 bucks or so for 10 delivered, most looked close enough to new I wouldn't tell the difference after one day out. It's also a good "home" for all the pouches I bought to try and didn't like. Until I can afford to standardize on pouches, that motley assortment will be more than fine!
 

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Hey Man,
Do I enjoy this piece that you have written! Brings back old memories and stimulates new ones. People are NOT taking the world situation with as much candor as they/we should. There are things happening all around us that if one puts them together, show
a very serious situation with the USA in the bullseye. These days, almost, every country in the world has a gripe, beef or just plain hatred for the USA. It doesn't matter what or howmuch we have done OR are doing to help them...

In my opion, EVERYONE in the USA should be aware of the situation and everything that goes on around them. I believe in Concealed Carry and I CARRY EVERYWHERE! Lots of times, stores have the circle with the X'ed out pistol, I could care less. All they can really do is ask you to leave and if you have a brain, the piece is CONCEALED! They'll never see it!

Then there is the seanario that you have laid out on your post, which is, or "should be"
REQUIRED READING!

Talk to you later and prehaps we can start a new thread that will expound upon this way of thinking and readiness.

Kind regards, Sinker

























Just for fun. Read this and see if it changes your thought processes. I lived by these for awhile. Maybe that's why I think like I do. I bolded the one's I want you to focus on for this discussion but the other are open to comment.

US Rangers Rules for Gun fighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent
accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."
 

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If you didn't have a safe for your guns?quote] These won't be restricted so ther eis no rush for getting one as long as you have some form of security for your guns.

You didn't have a combat arm?
Define a combat arm? Pistol, black rifle? If you want a semi-auto rifle go get one this year. Obama will try to ban these again.

You didn't have a stockpile of ammunition for your weapon of choice?
How much do you think you will need? Ultimately prices will only go up so the earlier you buy it the less you spend in the long run. Buy what you can afford when you can afford it. I stocked up two years ago and am still shooting bullets I bought then at less than $90 per 1000 for .45s.

This year I am considering another semi-auto. I should have ordered an LWRC or POF last year, but thought i'd give the XCR-M a chance. Perhaps no more.

What I am buying is hi-cap mags and mag parts. That way I'll have a good number of these for post ban use. I'll use ten rounders for practise however to elongate the lifespan of the hicaps.

Advice to you is buy hi-cap mags and a semi-auto if you actually want one. Ammo is somethgn you should be buying anyway, but there is a difference in stockpiling and use. Stock pile practise ammo yes, but given that in a real world scanario you aill use hollowpoints/nunting rounds yo probably only need a few hundred of each to carry. Don't waste your money buyng 1000 winchester Rangers.
 

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I would put it in this order.

Pistol, Ammo, Safe.

If you can only buy one, and I put a pistol as number one I would recommend buying a cheap reliable something or other. My first pistol was a CZ40P. I heart that gun. Super reliable, accurate, high capacity, excellent grip, easy to clean, has a decocker. I am a large fan of CZ and most anything they make. They are quality firearms in my opinion at a decent price.

Ammo, if you buy the right caliber you can get a lot of it. 9mm would probably the widest available and the cheapest. If you can only have one gun, a 9mm will be fine. I tell people when I'm speaking about guns, don't ask yourself if the gun you are buying will be able to kill someone, its how dead do you want them? 9mm they are dead. 40 you want them really dead. 45 you want to blow a limb off. Being armed is always better than not being armed, no matter what it is.

Lastly a safe. I didn't own one for the longest, but its nice to be able to leave the house and not worry about your weapons when you leave them. I own 3 safes. One really big one for the long guns. It weights 880lbs unloaded so that guy isn't budging. The other two I have one downstairs just incase, and one upstairs by the bed. You can get the smaller ones pretty cheap, around $80 - $100 and they will do just fine for a single firearm.

If i had to buy just one... and it was my first...

CZ P01 - 9mm handgun just like my P40. Going to fit nice, going to hold 14 rounds, be all of the things above I mentioned.
Ammo - You can buy the winchester FMJ stuff really cheap at wally world. For self defense get you some mags of hollowpoint something.
Safe - I like the little gun vault's, cheap and effective
 

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Broken down by merit.

Ammunition. If it were really needed I could strip it down and make IED's out of it but without a rifle/pistol then it would be useless for its intended purpose.

Combat arm. I'd go with a good pistol. Rifles are nice but your personal defense should start with the closest threat first. But, good pistols cost good money so less to buy any ammo to get proficient and know if it will hiccup when you need it.

Safe. Nothing to put in it otherwise but I do put important papers and other giddy-gabbers in mine so security is nice. This is the preferred method to store anything but there are other ways. Not as good, but workable.


My pick, in order:

Pistol
Ammo
Safe


ETA: Oh, and I'd coordinate with my buds to for mutual support. No sense in overlapping efforts.
Everyone's getting specific now!


Pistol....

Springfield GI 1911. USGI surplus mags are still cheap. The pistol is simple, reliable, and with the right loads very easy to manage.

If not, Glock 17 or 19. More ammo, just as simple and reliable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Now were cooking.

"Any gun will do if you will do".

I like the fact that most would like a hand gun because it's always avalible. Per say.

I really seem to be seeing where most are try to establish balance in their purchase of goods. Every member of the house equiped alike.

I do find it amusing however that no one person has mentioned "subguns", or full auto/suppressed anything. Unless i missed it.

This is giving me quite a lot to stimulate my mind and take it off the problems I have at hand.

What about NFA weapons? ANY TAKERS?
 

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If you need a sub gun find a STEN kit and a good machinist, the kind you can pay in beer. ;) Still 9mm and cheap. If it breaks you can darn near make a replacement part with a chunk of something, a file and a dremel tool. Throw in an extra case of barley pop and he'll turn you a can too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
hell yeah!
 

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I took a subgun course back in - IIRC - Y2K.

I walked away from there understanding that I had no need for a subgun, and promptly forgot about it.
Everything I could do with the Uzi, I can do with (now) an XCR. The opposite statement is far from true.

FWIW, I preferred the Uzi to the MP5. I know, blasphemy.
 

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SMG's are good for breaking contact up-close. A lot of "inyaface" hate. You might not hit much but it'll keep their heads down long enough so you can come up with a better plan!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
How dare you step away from all that is right and betray the great HK.

Yeah, been there shot that. (MP5).

Ergonomics ain't right for me, felt like I was all drawn in when shooting and had the tendency to come out of pocket.

Seem's like nobody has a purpose for grenades or mines. I know that wasn't a option but I'm still surprised no body went there.

It seem's Glock 17 is the pistol in 9mm for most. Of course our dear XCR the rifle, (that's why were gathered here today). Only once a shotgun and it was the never failing 870...Amen...is there anything else to have splatter gun wise? Mags and ammo a bus load of.

Thanks people this is good therapy right now.
 

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Blasphemers! Actually I prefer the UMP but you shoot what you're issued.
 
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