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Very HK, but I guess thinking out of the box for an AK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Very HK? ....What?
 
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This was discussed at length on Warrior Talk.

The general consensus and questions were..

"why bother??"

"bet that gets hot"

"ohh cool, more parts to break"

and "umm....training fail"

Personally I like the way the AK works. I got trained by good people and actually prefer the simple old AK as it is (with a few tweaks tho actually). I can assure you that you wont find one on MY AK's, NOR in my parts box either.

Waste of money for no gain in useability
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This was discussed at length on Warrior Talk.

The general consensus and questions were..

"why bother??"

"bet that gets hot" Watch video 2 (I believe) after he dumps 4 mags. He is able to keep his hand on the charging handle/gas tube. Doesnt seem to get that hot

"ohh cool, more parts to break" Whats there to break? You going to break the gas tube? the metal sleeve that covers the piston?

and "umm....training fail" Im not even going to go here. Just think XCR and AR-15 charging handle and pick which one is more comfortable and ergonomic.

Personally I like the way the AK works. I got trained by good people and actually prefer the simple old AK as it is (with a few tweaks tho actually). I can assure you that you wont find one on MY AK's, NOR in my parts box either. Great. Im glad you like your weapons the way they are. Some people like to tweak theirs. No big deal. They paid for it so they can do what they want with it.

Waste of money for no gain in useability. How do you figure no useability? Its only my speculation as I do not own one of these, but I would bet mag changes would be a considerable bit faster than reaching under/over method (not to mention, if your running a side mount and optic).



Again you have your opinion and thats great. But just because you would not benefit from something like this does not mean someone else will not. Not everyone has to be like Jack-O
 

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I do like the left side charging handle idea, but will probably go with an AK Lightning Bolt instead of this device so I can leave my T-1 in it's scout mount...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, this would obviously not be beneficial to those using an ultimak or quad handguard with forward-mounted optics. This would however be beneficial to those running the side mount.
 
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yeah, the lightning bolt is better executed IMO. If I was gonna go that route I'd want a handle on both sides.

the biggest response at WT was "why bother" no-one could answer that to any reasonable level other than "because they can" or "to try to make it into something it aint". frankly the first reason is perfectly OK to almost everyone, but dont try to sell me on the "tactical" benefits of making a gun do something it wasnt designed for because the operator is too lazy to learn how to run the thing.

Frankly it's just so easy to reach under the rifle and behind the mag, that this seems unnecessary to me. thousands of repetitions have pretty well made this action instinctive.

Any new weapons I get I just learn their manual of arms instead of trying to mod them into something else.

I guess I'm old fashioned in that I think the operator should learn the weapon, and that weapons run as intended when LEFT as intended. :-\
 

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I guess I'm old fashioned in that I think the operator should learn the weapon, and that weapons run as intended when LEFT as intended. :-\
I don't see that this has anything to do with it, other than you getting upset because someone decided to do it differently than you.

I do think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure there's enough benefit to really make it worthwhile. I believe I'd also go with the lightning bolt over this. I'd be a bit worried about catching my thumb at some point with that long handle too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I guess I'm old fashioned in that I think the operator should learn the weapon, and that weapons run as intended when LEFT as intended. :-\
I don't see that this has anything to do with it, other than you getting upset because someone decided to do it differently than you.

I do think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure there's enough benefit to really make it worthwhile. I believe I'd also go with the lightning bolt over this. I'd be a bit worried about catching my thumb at some point with that long handle too. Well put Underground. Some people try to push there own agenda/weapon platform and convince everyone to do it there way and if you don't your wrong. Then they try to use the training issue to help their stance on a particular issue.
 

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One of the Magpul guys mod'd an AK by chopping down the charging handle and installing a Masada handle in its place, and then milling out a slot on the left side and welding on a second Masada handle. Think I saw it over on barfcom. Being reciprocating I don't know how I'd like it but it was neat nonetheless.
 

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One of the Magpul guys mod'd an AK by chopping down the charging handle and installing a Masada handle in its place, and then milling out a slot on the left side and welding on a second Masada handle. Think I saw it over on barfcom. Being reciprocating I don't know how I'd like it but it was neat nonetheless.
That's basically just what the lightning bolt is, just a carrier with a left side handle. Or they'll mod yours and you can leave the right side handle on and have both.
 

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Not sure if I like that. Non-reciprocating would have been nicer. Looks a bit Mickey-Mouse to me.
 
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jon, I really dont care what you do to your AK. What I'm trying to convey is that there are 10,000+ guys over at WT that looked at this and none of them thought it was a good idea. Most of them are AK guys, and most know how to run one REALLY well. Some of them even have run them in combat.

As a general rule it's a poor idea to try to make something do what it was not designed to do. This is a clear case of doing just that.. AS IS the lightning bolt.

Go ahead buy the thing, mod your gun, then run it thru a couple of classes and several thousand rounds, and tell us if it's and "improvement", a step backward, or just something different.

I'd genuinely like to know.

while you're at it, why dont you tell me how it runs from the left side, charging with my right hand? the AK is REAL good at that right now, and every operator should be as capable from his left side as his right. then tell me how much dirt and crud gets shoveled in the gas tube due to the huge SLOT that go put in there. lets see how that works when you are rolling around in the dirt trying not to get shot. ::) Hopefully that big handle up front wont get too hung op on shit or snagged on something and push the bolt out of battery when you need it the most.

it's a huge fail meant to appeal to the left side charge handle right hand, "at the range only" shooter. I aint one of those. My guns better be ready for a fight cause thats whats comin. It dont pass the common sense test, it dont pass the ambidextrous test, and it dont pass the "no negative effects on the system" test.

But if you like it, and think I dont like it because i'm a know-it-all jackass then fine get it bro. remember YOU asked US what we thought!!

You officially have my blessing to get it. I think it's the PERFECT accessory for your AK ;) ;D
 
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I actually thought of a good reason to put this on your gun...

BECAUSE I CAN.

Thats a very valid reason in my mind, and i support guys messing around with thier guns "because they can"

AS LONG AS IT DOESNT MESS WITH A PRIMARY DEFENSIVE OR OFFENSIVE SYSTEM

PLEASE dont try to sell it to me as a tactical game changer or something other than an experiment, unless you come loaded for bear and can prove it tho.

Sorry, but my take on stuff almost always comes from a practical use standpoint. If it dont have a practical use, then it's a FAIL to me.

you can always counter with "because I can" or "because I wanted to" tho, and I'll leave you alone. Lord knows I've done stuff to guns just because I could.
 

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I think pretty much everyone recognized some good reasons not to use that for any serious purpose. And you covered most of those in your later posts. I certainly won't be buying one, although I think it's an interesting idea.

But, when you posted earlier coming off as a "know-it-all jackass" is exactly what you did. This may not have been your intention, but when you start trashing something on the basis of thats-not-the-way-I-do-it, expect to get called on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Jack-o,

Again, nobody is trying to sell you anything, let alone convince you to use it. All I did was post a link to the website stating that this is kinda neat. Its food for thought. Nothing more, nothing less. Your posts lately have came off very arrogant lately with the I am GOD, know it all attitude. You repeat posts from some other forum from supposedly "internet gurus" that train in combat blah blah blah blah. I really dont care for what they have to say as it is merely speculation unless they have actually used the system. If not they are talking out their ass with the same attitude of its an AK, you will go to hell if you modify the worlds greatest operating system. Just look at the AR platform and the many changes that it has gone through. Even if this system is shit, maybe, just maybe someone with the right tools and know how could improve upon it after seeing what failed and what worked. Remember, If you dont have anything nice to say, than say nothing at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
jon, I really dont care what you do to your AK. What I'm trying to convey is that there are 10,000+ guys over at WT that looked at this and none of them thought it was a good idea. Most of them are AK guys, and most know how to run one REALLY well. Some of them even have run them in combat.

As a general rule it's a poor idea to try to make something do what it was not designed to do. This is a clear case of doing just that.. AS IS the lightning bolt.

Go ahead buy the thing, mod your gun, then run it thru a couple of classes and several thousand rounds, and tell us if it's and "improvement", a step backward, or just something different.

I'd genuinely like to know.

while you're at it, why dont you tell me how it runs from the left side, charging with my right hand? the AK is REAL good at that right now, and every operator should be as capable from his left side as his right. then tell me how much dirt and crud gets shoveled in the gas tube due to the huge SLOT that go put in there. lets see how that works when you are rolling around in the dirt trying not to get shot. ::) Hopefully that big handle up front wont get too hung op on shit or snagged on something and push the bolt out of battery when you need it the most.

it's a huge fail meant to appeal to the left side charge handle right hand, "at the range only" shooter. I aint one of those. My guns better be ready for a fight cause thats whats comin. It dont pass the common sense test, it dont pass the ambidextrous test, and it dont pass the "no negative effects on the system" test.

But if you like it, and think I dont like it because i'm a know-it-all jackass then fine get it bro. remember YOU asked US what we thought!! You might want to re-read any post that I made. Where did I ask you or anyone elses opinion on it, and where did I even state that I planned on purchasing one. I like my Arsenal the way it is. I just thought it was a neat idea so i posted it.

You officially have my blessing to get it. I think it's the PERFECT accessory for your AK ;) ;D
 
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But, when you posted earlier coming off as a "know-it-all jackass" is exactly what you did. This may not have been your intention, but when you start trashing something on the basis of thats-not-the-way-I-do-it, expect to get called on it.
Yeah, I'm not sure why I've been coming across that way recently. I guess I'm not tempering my posts for text well enough.

Maybe I've just been bored or something or spending too much time on teh interwebs.

i definitely could use more range time tho. I did climb a mountain this afternoon (a little one), hopefully that will help. ;D 8)

I am trying to be helpful even if it comes off as jackassery. :duh:
 

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It does sound like you need to burn off some energy or something. If you had just taken the points you made couched in "jackassery" and made a few of those up front without all the other hoopla, it wouldn't have been taken that way I don't believe.
 
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