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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

I hate to admit this but,I don't ever recall hearing anything about this cartridge before seeing it here.I can't figure out for the life of me why this hasn't receiver more press.This is one of those "why the hell didn't I think of that"ideas.This whole time all the debate and bs about which cartridge we should adopt to replace the grand old 5.56 was right under our nose.
I know everyone has an opinion here about what they think would be the best choice for this or that reason.Some of them good reasons,others simply emotionally based opinions.The point here is this:eek:ur fightin' men deserve better.The problem of course lies in the fact that great old Uncle Sam is one stubborn procrastinating old bastard.
Like it or not,logistics will be the driving force of any decision they make.The sheer cost savings of only having to buy a barrel to change cartridges is a HUGE factor they would consider.I'm not sure how the impingement system will handle the differant gas pressures,that IS something that would have to be considered.It's also another example of why a gas adjustable piston driven system is better.
I know the ballistics of this round aren't quite as good as the 6.8spc,or the Grendal,but they don't have to,to be an effective combat round.I think we should all write or call the ammo companies and ask them to consider putting this round into production.After all cost in development would be nill,and the brass is plentiful as hell.I bet Hornady would do it,they are always doing a special run of something.
If Alex were to give them a call and suggest he were going to do a run of barrels,they might give it a look.They may even look into other company doing AR uppers or barrels in the 6.5x45,who knows.If there were other platforms on the market right now with quick change barrels this might take off even quicker.
If this had proper publicity,it could,maybe should,be the next U.S military cartridge.It may not be the perfect solution,but there probably is no such animal.In the end,all attempts at such are a compromise of differant characteristics.This one, however,may have just about the right balance to be accepted by the "brass" and give our troops a better fighting tool.They deserve it now,not ten years down the road.



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Re: 6.5x45

What are the ballistics of this round?

I'm not an expert, but it sounds to me like you are going to be using essentially the same case capacity/powder load as a 5.56 to shoot a bigger caliber, heavier bullet. Sounds like it would make 7.62x39 trajectories look good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

I changed the name of this post hoping to get more interest and/or feedback from everyone.I truly think if this cartridge were explored a little more and we could get a couple factory loads going,this has the potential for greatness.
If the idea of finding the ideal military round for an assault carbine appeals to you,this has the potential to be the one.



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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

I truly think if this cartridge were explored a little more and we could get a couple factory loads going,this has the potential for greatness. If the idea of finding the ideal military round for an assault carbine appeals to you,this has the potential to be the one.
If, by 6.5x45, you're referring to the 6.5 MPC (which is actually a 6.5x42, btw), I agree it appears to have very good potential.

Although JD Jones has assured me it does fit in, and feed reliably from, G.I. mags, I did not have enough dummy rounds to personally verify the claim. There's a couple of pics here that may be of interest: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10535&postcount=7

What makes me unsure that it can achieve proper stacking in 5.56 mags is that 5.56 case neck diameter is 0.253" -- which would seem to indicate that with the shortened case, 0.243" bullets are the fattest that will fit without causing excess friction. That's why I long advocated something like the 6mm VarTarg Turbo. http://www.woodchuckden.com/VarTarg.aspx

But, if the 6.5 MPC does feed reliably from M16 mags, it'd probably be the better choice because I'd expect it to produce better terminal effects. Indeed, for use in the current two-caliber system, it offers significant advantages over both 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

What makes me unsure that it can achieve proper stacking in 5.56 mags is that 5.56 case neck diameter is 0.253" -- which would seem to indicate that with the shortened case, 0.243" bullets are the fattest that will fit without causing excess friction. That's why I long advocated something like the 6mm VarTarg Turbo. http://www.woodchuckden.com/VarTarg.aspx
I wouldn't think neck diameter would have anything to do with feeding as long as overall cartridge case length and the taper of the case was kept the same,shoulder angle will have something to do with it too.It looks to me the neck diameter would have nothing to do with how the magazine releases the cartridge at all.
I do think however the 6mm bullet instead of the 6.5 would be a viable alternative to a military replacement for the 5.56x45 for all the same logistical reasons I've mentioned before.It would be especially nice for XCR owners since for a caliber conversion.just buy another barrel.It's a less expensive alternative to either the 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 Grendel in several ways,brass is exceptionally cheaper and so are the caliber conversion kits.
In my opinion it's a no-brainer,and since we seem to have a ammunition company on board now for the 6x45(Cor-Bon)we now have quality ammo readily available to those who do not currently reload.For those unhappy with the 5.56 or those wanting to whitetail hunt with the XCR,buy a barrel and go do your thing!! For those who do reload,not much to resize brass,6mm bullets,some load data,and you can crank out ammo for a fraction of what loaded 6.8 costs you.What's not to love?
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

Sounds like a spin-off of the 6.8x45mm Kramer Urban Combat Cartridge (UCC). All-in-all I can't say that is a bad thing. I think a 6.5 or 6mm bullet would do wonders and should be explored further. I will watch with interest. I would definitely be in the following category.

For those unhappy with the 5.56 or those wanting to whitetail hunt with the XCR,buy a barrel and go do your thing!! For those who do reload,not much to resize brass,6mm bullets,some load data,and you can crank out ammo for a fraction of what loaded 6.8 costs you.What's not to love?
If you look at the front stiffing ribs you can tell that if a bullet in too wide in the neck area, you will have problems. I wonder, will this be an issue?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

If you look at the front stiffing ribs you can tell that if a bullet in too wide in the neck area, you will have problems. I wonder, will this be an issue?
Do you mean cause feeding issues?
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

It might. But mostly I would refer you to the same problems that the 6.8 has in a 5.56 mag. Forget about the case width for a minute but just look at the front ribs of the mag with a couple a rounds in it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

You mean as in dragging inside the magazine on the vertical reinforcement ribs? Well after looking inside a loaded 5.56 magazine(Magpul and G.I.)it looks damn snug.I have to ask gunner,as I'm sure he has or had a M96 chambered for the 6x45.He could give us a better opinion(real world) of how the 6x45 would feed from the standard Stanag magazine.The only thing I could do is speculate.I don't remember him saying anything about magazine troubles though.
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

You mean as in dragging inside the magazine on the vertical reinforcement ribs?
Yup-yup. Also like you, I definitely want to know what Gunner has to say. Man, if one can use hi-cap Stanag mags without losing any capacity, use speed loaders, and get a bigger/better (more effective) bullet in the 5.56mm case. And just buy a new barrel. That would be great!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

That's my whole argument why the military should be looking into this more closely.The cost savings in not having to buy all new magazines alone would be astronomical!! Plus,more ASS than the 5.56...and no other new parts besides a barrel swap..can you say.. :duh:?
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

I think that was the whole idea behind Robarms wanting to release the new "mystery" caliber. You would use the same bolt and mag, only having to change the barrel to use the 6mm (and I would think 6.5). I will buy a 6mm barrel when it is available as I have enough brass to resize and leave 6mm.
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

That's my whole argument why the military should be looking into this more closely.The cost savings in not having to buy all new magazines alone would be astronomical!! Plus,more ASS than the 5.56...and no other new parts besides a barrel swap..can you say.. :duh:?
My only concern is the mag. I'm not saying their is an issue, I hope their is no issue what so ever. Otherwise I agree with you whole heartedly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

I'm going to eventually reload,but as of now my time and available space won't allow it.This is a reloaders dream I would think,especially if you want a medium cartridge that's more capable than the 5.56 without the expense of a "new generation" cartridge that uses more expensive cases.
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

Right now I would like some confirmation on this "mystery caliber" from either Terra or Alex. Either way I think I should start buying more 5.56mm brass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

Trust me ...buy more 5.56 brass ;)
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

Buy more 5.56 brass, or collect it while out shooting. Knowing what kind of relationship John Farnam has with Alex, him talking about the new caliber is gospel. Especially is Cor-Bon is already talking about producing ammo for it.
 

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Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

Sounds like a spin-off of the 6.8x45mm Kramer Urban Combat Cartridge (UCC).
I'm pretty sure the 6.5 MPC isn't a spin-off of the 6.8 UCC (which, if you compare it to a 5.56x45, looks to be actually 6.8x44, not 6.8x45).

The 6.5 MPC and 6.8 UCC appear to have been developed in parallel during 2005. Probably neither Kramer nor JD knew that the other was working on similar projects.

FWIW, I had the idea for stuffing the bullet from a 6.8 SPC into a necked-up 5.56x45 case back in 2003, two years before Kramer even began dreaming of it. I didn't have the ability to shorten and push back the shoulder of a 5.56 case, so I made a 6.8x41 by using a .222 Remington case. It can be seen here: http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/bullet.html#270arc
If you look at the front stiffing ribs you can tell that if a bullet in too wide in the neck area, you will have problems. I wonder, will this be an issue?
Kramer admits to the 6.8 UCC having a problem with stacking, and says that new mags would be necessary to use that cartridge. http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1143

JD Jones says that the 6.5 MPC has no such difficulties, and works fine in issue mags. It'd be good to have independent confirmation, though.

The 6x45 (6mm-223) that is said to be the new XCR chambering reportedly has a history of working in converted AR-15s, so it may well be that the 6.5 MPC is also good insofar as being usable in 5.56 mags.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Anyone here explored the benefits of the 6.5x45?

Interesting stuff,This is just my opinion,but I would think the having to neck the case up to a .270 diameter bullet could cause headspace issues(not as much neck to rest on) in a semi-auto quicker than a smaller bullet/neck combination.I'm no cartridge engineer,but common sense dictates that feeding could possibly be affected too because as we all know it's easier to stuff a small object in a bigger hole than one closer to the same size.In other words bottleneck cartridges feed better than straight walled or even slightly tapered cases,but the less the bottleneck the easier it would get hung up somewhere between magazine and chamber.I don't know how much an issue it actually would be,but it's something to think about.
 
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