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Interesting. Tom Mangan did choose his words wisely and used the proper termonology. Now that I've seen his face to his name I do remember seeing him a few times. ATF are the red headed step children in Fed and Local LEO Agencies b/c there are many pro 2nd Amendment LEO's. At least in AZ.

The big question that I have and what was NOT mentioned, what was the Search and Seizure warrant for. When we do ours (BP/ICE) we would at least state "We are conducting the S&S warrant for XYZ reason" to the press, "The warrant is for aliens ... yada, yada..." We will have to see what develops here. I know judges are picky as hell when it comes to us getting warrants, probably because we flood the fed courts with our cases. They just come shy of us being required to have a video of guys saying "I'm an illegal" then run into a building closing and locking the door. So do they get less picky with other agencies like ATF? This seems to be snitch based. I've heard rumors that it may be the case based on the arrest of a former employee. But this is just speculation on my part.

Wish them luck,err.... wait, no I don't!

I'm gonna come out and say that not all ATF guys are Nazi zealots. ATF is strife with management issues and those trying to make cases out of BS. Ask many FFL holders and they'll tell you the same. Many are cool, most just do the minimum and collect a pay check, but there is always that 'one' who may be as far out to think the 2nd is some sort of priviledge. Unfortunately those are the ones that seem to advance. Upper level management is always pushing ATF guys to make headline cases.

I know of one BP guy that went ATF and back to the BP. I haven't spoken to him since he came back but I heard plenty from others who also know him. They tend to like to hire new Agents right out of college. I know those types all to well b/c we also get them here. You'd be amazed how they don't have a clue about the 2nd Amendment and I always say something if they do the "OMG! Is that legal?". They also seem to be Cali born and raised and they actually don't know gun laws period!

I used to think Mexican Consulate Officers as the worse for us in the BP. That was until I met one Mexican Consular Officer, he holds dual citizenship, former MO cop for many years, left the US and got a job with the Mexican consulate just so he would get out of paying alimony to his wife, he does pay child support by his choice. But got the typical screw job always handed to men here in the US. And he is the last guy any Mexican in BP custody would want to see. That is unless it is truly warranted.

For me to be ATF it would be a big conflict of interest akin as to someone coming in to the BP after being raised their whole life in Mexico. It wouldn't work out.
 

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Every time I have spoken to the ATF they have been polite and courteous. They have even helped me understand rights I did not realize I had. My understanding is that if you obey the law then they are ok, but if you break it they come at you hard. Maybe that's why they are seen as harsh, but ultimately they are just doing their jobs. It's a shitty one but some poor bastard has to do it.

It's like cops, you hate them for giving you a speeding ticket but you love them when they respond to a 911 call.
 

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The problem with ATF doesn't come down to the individual officer/agent. The collective decision-making that goes on, especially at FTB and NFA Branch, is....well....lacking. ATF has pissed off the gun community not because the fact that they are enforcing laws, but how they are enforcing them. In the past several years, ATF has reversed decisions on certain issues that have really hurt the people they are supposed to be serving. ATF is an enforcement branch, not an interpretive branch, although they are given some room to make determinations on issues that fall within their scope of power.

The Akins fiasco, groundless raids on some mid-size manufacturers and shops, and other occurences have caused alot of people in the industry to adopt a very poor attitude with them. Can't say I blame them.
 

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The one thing I have noticed with the ATF is that if you start out being civil and polite, they reciprocate. If you are an asshole and start yacking on at them then likewise they reciprocate.
 

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If male-ly owned homosexuality...
 

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Hey, I'm going to do a pink FS2000 for my wife. Nothing wrong with it and when she shoots she does 200 yard head shots cause it's more fun upsetting the old timers.
 

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I hope your wifes not male, becuse that would suck....
If its a girls gun pink is fine bably blue is fine pasty yellows fine what ever just not if your a dude, theres a thin red line we dont cross...
 

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Interesting. Tom Mangan did choose his words wisely and used the proper termonology. Now that I've seen his face to his name I do remember seeing him a few times. ATF are the red headed step children in Fed and Local LEO Agencies b/c there are many pro 2nd Amendment LEO's. At least in AZ.

The big question that I have and what was NOT mentioned, what was the Search and Seizure warrant for. When we do ours (BP/ICE) we would at least state "We are conducting the S&S warrant for XYZ reason" to the press, "The warrant is for aliens ... yada, yada..." We will have to see what develops here. I know judges are picky as hell when it comes to us getting warrants, probably because we flood the fed courts with our cases. They just come shy of us being required to have a video of guys saying "I'm an illegal" then run into a building closing and locking the door. So do they get less picky with other agencies like ATF? This seems to be snitch based. I've heard rumors that it may be the case based on the arrest of a former employee. But this is just speculation on my part.

Wish them luck,err.... wait, no I don't!

I'm gonna come out and say that not all ATF guys are Nazi zealots. ATF is strife with management issues and those trying to make cases out of BS. Ask many FFL holders and they'll tell you the same. Many are cool, most just do the minimum and collect a pay check, but there is always that 'one' who may be as far out to think the 2nd is some sort of priviledge. Unfortunately those are the ones that seem to advance. Upper level management is always pushing ATF guys to make headline cases.

I know of one BP guy that went ATF and back to the BP. I haven't spoken to him since he came back but I heard plenty from others who also know him. They tend to like to hire new Agents right out of college. I know those types all to well b/c we also get them here. You'd be amazed how they don't have a clue about the 2nd Amendment and I always say something if they do the "OMG! Is that legal?". They also seem to be Cali born and raised and they actually don't know gun laws period!

I used to think Mexican Consulate Officers as the worse for us in the BP. That was until I met one Mexican Consular Officer, he holds dual citizenship, former MO cop for many years, left the US and got a job with the Mexican consulate just so he would get out of paying alimony to his wife, he does pay child support by his choice. But got the typical screw job always handed to men here in the US. And he is the last guy any Mexican in BP custody would want to see. That is unless it is truly warranted.

For me to be ATF it would be a big conflict of interest akin as to someone coming in to the BP after being raised their whole life in Mexico. It wouldn't work out.
I303, you are correct, the ATF raid was a snitch based raid, i think we both know who it was, someone in trouble that i trying to get the heat off himself. Got this info from AZ today, i wont say much more but i think time will tell all
 

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They took all the arms outside and "flaunted" them to make a public scene. And it seems to me that they were less than careful with them. They were piling them on top of each other and leaning them against masonry walls. IMO the ATF should be made to compensate this business owner for any and all damage done to his property, and for lost income. If he is innocent of whatever obsure charges, I hope he is able to sue for damages and that the awards are huge enough to have a dampening effect on this out of control "department".
 

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Wife is 5'4", with big tits and a baby due in four weeks. Looks good down the range in high heels shooting her Glock one handed. Definatley female unless I got the anatomy class wrong.
 
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