FAMAS G2 ;D
Since that gun isnt sold in the USA, I would probably go with a Steyr AUG
Since that gun isnt sold in the USA, I would probably go with a Steyr AUG
Bullpup
I didn't see a subject title for talk about "other types of weapons" so I hope this doesn't seem like blasphemy here. But since XCR enthusiasts obviously tend be a discriminating bunch I'm looking for some opinions on bullpup type weapons. I'd like to own one if there is one that particularly stands out as a worthy consideration. I've looked at FN Herstal. Steyr, and Kel-Tec, but I need to know about any others that might be out there, that you can actually buy in the U.S. that is. I understand the concepts of shorter profile/longer barrel, different balance, and those types of things but I need to know more about the reputation and reliability of any particular weapon or manufacturer as well as any tactical advantages/disadvantages that this configuration brings. I feel like I have the best conventional style weapon in the world as far as the XCR, so I'm just looking to diversify my collection. Thanks.
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I'd like to acquire the FN FS2000 eventually. I've heard and read some good things about it. But the one I'm really looking forward to owning is the new RFB Hammer by Kel-Tec. From what I have seen and read they are doing this one right! Can't wait to get my greedy paws on one. >
I own the Bushmaster M17S, and although a great shooter, it's a bit on the heavy side. The trigger pull is pretty much awful and it has piss poor stock sights. The forend gets pretty hot after two mags of rapid fire.
I also have an AK-47 bullpup. It's fun and mean, but the trigger on it is even worse than the BushPup. :-\
The Hammer is going to be an awesome weapon. Strong and mean, with a great trigger!
Good luck in your search. 8)
I own the Bushmaster M17S, and although a great shooter, it's a bit on the heavy side. The trigger pull is pretty much awful and it has piss poor stock sights. The forend gets pretty hot after two mags of rapid fire.
I also have an AK-47 bullpup. It's fun and mean, but the trigger on it is even worse than the BushPup. :-\
The Hammer is going to be an awesome weapon. Strong and mean, with a great trigger!
Good luck in your search. 8)
G
There is a really good and active thread going on at Warrior Talk on the bullpup right now. It has some good opinions of all the bullpups from guys who have actually used them a reasonable amount. I'd really take the time to read thru the thread as it will answer your question for you.
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=45103&highlight=bullpup
the bottom line of the thread is basically that if you want a good bullpup, the FS2000 is the only answer.
read the thread before you pitch a fit about the assertion please
feel free to ask me about any of the comments I make in that thread.
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=45103&highlight=bullpup
the bottom line of the thread is basically that if you want a good bullpup, the FS2000 is the only answer.
read the thread before you pitch a fit about the assertion please
feel free to ask me about any of the comments I make in that thread.
The bullpup idea has never held all that much appeal for me, but if I did get one, I think it would be the FS2k, simply because it is the only one I am aware of that can be fired from either shoulder (first of all, I'm a lefty). Only being able to fire from one shoulder, ala AUG, seems like a major issue to me.
I've always been interested in the bullpup design. I think it accomplishes having an SBR sized rifle with a full length barrel. They seem to handle well too. The down sides seem to be poor triggers, and there ergos are not good fro mag changes.
I am not much of an AUG fan. The FS2000 is a cool weapon. But the $$$$ is what holds me back on it. I would get a Bushmaster M17s. But they don't make them anymore. (Not into safe queens). I am most interested in the RFB by Kel-tec. I hope they use a type of polymer that does not look & feel cheesy & weak. :2cents:
I have an FS2000. Great rifle.
CDNN has some Bushmasters they are selling at $799.
The Keltec looks nice as well. Hopefully I'll get to handle it at SHOT.
CDNN has some Bushmasters they are selling at $799.
The Keltec looks nice as well. Hopefully I'll get to handle it at SHOT.
I've also got an FS2000 and like it quite a bit. I've got about 500 rds through it so far and no malfunctions. Mine's got the factory 1.5x optic on it, and I'm constantly being surprised at how accurate it is when snap-shooting at 100 yds.
I do not own a AUG or any bullpup. With every exposure to the AUG it grows on me A AUG clone very well may be in my future.
The British L85A2 actually impressed me quite a bit. Although not balanced like the AUG it does feel slimmer and trimmer to me.
Need more exposure to the FS2000 to form a lasting opinion.
Yes, I too have been watching the Kel-tec RFB with some interest.
The British L85A2 actually impressed me quite a bit. Although not balanced like the AUG it does feel slimmer and trimmer to me.
Need more exposure to the FS2000 to form a lasting opinion.
Yes, I too have been watching the Kel-tec RFB with some interest.
I think the RFB looks interesting, but that ejection tube makes me nervous. I know they've pumped tons of R&D into it to make sure it's not a source of added malfunctions, but still...
The FS2000 uses a similar scheme and it's been very reliable AFAIK. There was one failure on arfcom, but IIRC the guy reassembled it incorrectly, to the point where he had to use a fair bit of force to get things put back together, with predictable results.
Besides the obvious lefty-friendliness, ejecting the empties through a long tube like this it reduces the amount of dirt that can get into the action. So even if it's slightly less reliable than the traditional "toss them out the window" ejection, it may reduce other types of failures enough that the tradeoff may well be worth it. The FS2000 also uses a gasket inside the magwell to prevent dirt from coming in through that pathway, but I'm not sure if the Kel-Tec will do too. It's a good idea, but it prevents the magazines from dropping free, so it's a somewhat controversial feature.
Besides the obvious lefty-friendliness, ejecting the empties through a long tube like this it reduces the amount of dirt that can get into the action. So even if it's slightly less reliable than the traditional "toss them out the window" ejection, it may reduce other types of failures enough that the tradeoff may well be worth it. The FS2000 also uses a gasket inside the magwell to prevent dirt from coming in through that pathway, but I'm not sure if the Kel-Tec will do too. It's a good idea, but it prevents the magazines from dropping free, so it's a somewhat controversial feature.
I for one would love to see a L85 clone and/or a Tavor in the US. The RFB has the same type of ejection system as FS2000.
G
LOL,The FS2000 also uses a gasket inside the magwell to prevent dirt from coming in through that pathway, but I'm not sure if the Kel-Tec will do too. It's a good idea, but it prevents the magazines from dropping free, so it's a somewhat controversial feature.
One mans design specification is another's controversy I guess
Personally, I'm looking forward to the AUGa3. I do like AUGs. The others...well...
Most of my experience has been with the AUG. I like it. With the four I've shot (and one I've owned), I've never had any real problems regarding the trigger. Trigger complaints I regard as mostly bullshit, generated by parroting internet stupidity. Of course, my experience is limited to those examples, but compared to, say, HK triggers, AUGs have nothing to apologize for. Hell, I've used worse triggers on ARs, though usually ARs have good triggers.
The offhand thing, well, you either get used to it or don't use bullpups. The only ambi-bullpup around is the FS2000. That gun just does not fit me. I can't stand it.
I've had experience with some others. The Valmet bullpup--awkward, but it worked. The M17S--felt pretty good, but miserable reliabilty. The AWC G2--complete piece of shit. There was another AK-based bullpup I got to handle, but have never fired. Felt like the Valmet (no surprise). I think it was one of the Norincos.
I'd love to see a real Tavor in this country, but doubt it'll happen. Too bad.
Bullpups are what they are. You either like them, or you don't. They do have some very real advantages and disadvantages. Unfortunately, they're mostly scarce and expensive, so real information about them is also scarce. Internet crapola is both cheap and plentiful. Something to keep in mind.
Most of my experience has been with the AUG. I like it. With the four I've shot (and one I've owned), I've never had any real problems regarding the trigger. Trigger complaints I regard as mostly bullshit, generated by parroting internet stupidity. Of course, my experience is limited to those examples, but compared to, say, HK triggers, AUGs have nothing to apologize for. Hell, I've used worse triggers on ARs, though usually ARs have good triggers.
The offhand thing, well, you either get used to it or don't use bullpups. The only ambi-bullpup around is the FS2000. That gun just does not fit me. I can't stand it.
I've had experience with some others. The Valmet bullpup--awkward, but it worked. The M17S--felt pretty good, but miserable reliabilty. The AWC G2--complete piece of shit. There was another AK-based bullpup I got to handle, but have never fired. Felt like the Valmet (no surprise). I think it was one of the Norincos.
I'd love to see a real Tavor in this country, but doubt it'll happen. Too bad.
Bullpups are what they are. You either like them, or you don't. They do have some very real advantages and disadvantages. Unfortunately, they're mostly scarce and expensive, so real information about them is also scarce. Internet crapola is both cheap and plentiful. Something to keep in mind.
I'm leaning heavily toward the FS2000 at this point. Like a lot of other people I'm also eagerly anticipating the RFB but its hard to judge a weapon that hasn't been out there in significant numbers for several months. I'm also not sure the .308 round is the best (for me) in this style of weapon. I'll probably go for the FS2000 now and wait for others to take the big hit on initial price and potential unforseen issues with the RFB. Of course, whether I can still buy one in the future remains to be seen but I'm sure the FS2000 will scratch my itch for a bullpup all by itself if need be.
I've never seen an FS2000 in any gun store. Are these even carried by local dealers or do they have to be special ordered?
I've never seen an FS2000 in any gun store. Are these even carried by local dealers or do they have to be special ordered?
It's a high dollar,low volume item,that makes for a lot of overhead having a $2000 rifle just sitting there collecting dust and not making the FFL any money.Most of the mom-and-pop gunstores don't have the demand,and extra capitol to stock such an item.I've never seen an FS2000 in any gun store. Are these even carried by local dealers or do they have to be special ordered?
Ironically, FS2000s are fairly plentiful in my area. There are two major FN dealers and one or the other always seem to have 1-2 on hand.
Price, however, isn't what you'd call low. They're usually right at list, which I belive is $1800-$1900. Most of the gouging is long gone, though you never know what you'll see at gun shows--good or bad.
It's really too bad the thing feels like shouldering a 4x4 to me. I really want to like it, but can't stand the way it feels.
Price, however, isn't what you'd call low. They're usually right at list, which I belive is $1800-$1900. Most of the gouging is long gone, though you never know what you'll see at gun shows--good or bad.
It's really too bad the thing feels like shouldering a 4x4 to me. I really want to like it, but can't stand the way it feels.
We're all built differently too,so no weapons system will fit everyone the same.That's one reason why there are so many different flavors out there...different strokes for different folks.It does not matter what nifty features it has if it doesn't fit you well,it makes it more difficult to use it to your and it's full potential.
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