[EricCartmann]

http://homelandsecurityleader.com/h...ushmaster-and-magpul-team-on-advanced-weapon/



From Bushmaster Release

Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC (BFI) announced today that it has signed an exclusive license deal with Magpul Industries Corp. for the production, future development, and sales of Magpul’s prototype MASADA weapon system.

The Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) will initially be offered in 5.56 NATO, available for law enforcement and civilian purchase second quarter 2008. This release will be followed by military ACR versions in the 3rd quarter of 2008.

Without government funding or outside influence of any kind, the Masada concept was developed from scratch in Boulder, Colorado by Magpul’s Design Group. The Masada concept was first shown publicly at the 2007 Shot Show and its success prompted Magpul to spend a year redesigning the system for production.

The result is the ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) which keeps the fundamentals of the Masada concept with added advanced features such as firing pin block and true ambidextrous charging handle.

Among the ACR’s key features are a gas piston operating system, tool-less quick change barrel, multi-adjustable folding stock with integrated storage, and backward compatibility with a number of AR15/M16 parts. Due to similar operating controls, user transition from the M16 series of weapons is easily facilitated with minimal re-training.

The Bushmaster ACR will initially be available in 3 SKUS: Standard Carbine with fixed stock, Entry Carbine with folding stock, and Special Purpose Rifle with Precision Rifle Stock. Live fire demonstration and test and evaluations beginning in the end of March to qualified law enforcement, federal government agencies.

 

[variablebinary]

http://homelandsecurityleader.com/h...ushmaster-and-magpul-team-on-advanced-weapon/



From Bushmaster Release

Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC (BFI) announced today that it has signed an exclusive license deal with Magpul Industries Corp. for the production, future development, and sales of Magpul’s prototype MASADA weapon system.

The Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) will initially be offered in 5.56 NATO, available for law enforcement and civilian purchase second quarter 2008. This release will be followed by military ACR versions in the 3rd quarter of 2008.

Without government funding or outside influence of any kind, the Masada concept was developed from scratch in Boulder, Colorado by Magpul’s Design Group. The Masada concept was first shown publicly at the 2007 Shot Show and its success prompted Magpul to spend a year redesigning the system for production.

The result is the ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) which keeps the fundamentals of the Masada concept with added advanced features such as firing pin block and true ambidextrous charging handle.

Among the ACR’s key features are a gas piston operating system, tool-less quick change barrel, multi-adjustable folding stock with integrated storage, and backward compatibility with a number of AR15/M16 parts. Due to similar operating controls, user transition from the M16 series of weapons is easily facilitated with minimal re-training.

The Bushmaster ACR will initially be available in 3 SKUS: Standard Carbine with fixed stock, Entry Carbine with folding stock, and Special Purpose Rifle with Precision Rifle Stock. Live fire demonstration and test and evaluations beginning in the end of March to qualified law enforcement, federal government agencies.

Good for Magpul and consumers. More Masada's sold in more places

 

[Prizm]

Cool, very cool. If they bought it, must mean it's a promising product. I can't wait to get one.

 

[i303]

http://homelandsecurityleader.com/h...ushmaster-and-magpul-team-on-advanced-weapon/



From Bushmaster Release

Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC (BFI) announced today that it has signed an exclusive license deal with Magpul Industries Corp. for the production, future development, and sales of Magpul’s prototype MASADA weapon system.

The Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) will initially be offered in 5.56 NATO, available for law enforcement and civilian purchase second quarter 2008. This release will be followed by military ACR versions in the 3rd quarter of 2008.

Without government funding or outside influence of any kind, the Masada concept was developed from scratch in Boulder, Colorado by Magpul’s Design Group. The Masada concept was first shown publicly at the 2007 Shot Show and its success prompted Magpul to spend a year redesigning the system for production.

The result is the ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) which keeps the fundamentals of the Masada concept with added advanced features such as firing pin block and true ambidextrous charging handle.

Among the ACR’s key features are a gas piston operating system, tool-less quick change barrel, multi-adjustable folding stock with integrated storage, and backward compatibility with a number of AR15/M16 parts. Due to similar operating controls, user transition from the M16 series of weapons is easily facilitated with minimal re-training.

The Bushmaster ACR will initially be available in 3 SKUS: Standard Carbine with fixed stock, Entry Carbine with folding stock, and Special Purpose Rifle with Precision Rifle Stock. Live fire demonstration and test and evaluations beginning in the end of March to qualified law enforcement, federal government agencies.

Good for Magpul and consumers. More Masada's sold in more places

\

Do you really think so VB?


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=158557

 

[aziator]

well, i guess we will hear more after SHOT. It should be good news for everyone that wants one but I do wonder if it will end up being as modular as initially marketed. Does this mean we have to sit through another future weapons with the ACR?

 

[ny32182]

I always wondered if something like this would happen.

What did Magpul ever make before this concept rifle? Little plastic parts. Thats it. The biggest thing they have going for them is HK-level marketing skills. (And I'll admit their little plastic parts are nice; I've paid $40 for a plastic grip several times, as many others here have as well :)

They probably had the choices of:

A) Sell the design entirely
B) Some sort of partnership like they are doing now
C) Trying to build up the production capacity themselves, and risk putting out a complete POS, and risk massive capital investment at the same time

So if they didn't think they could do it themselves, this is probably the "next best" thing they could do.

In reality its probably the best thing to do, or they wouldn't have done it.

 

[SDR]

Sounds like they ran out of money, i like most of their stuff and own alot of it, my bet that it really intended for the LE market first, as ther will probably be another AWB before many hit the market, hope i am wrong. By then i will have a safe full of XCRs with a ton of spare parts and i wont be in the market for one.

 

[Gramps96Kz]

Interesting.........Remember "Cerberus Capital Management"
own/manage many corporations(Weapon mfgs are listed in other corps under the same umbrella)
Bushmaster
Remington
Marlin
Cobb
DPMS
production agreements with Iron Brigade and now Magpul
They must see/know something???
All of these weapon Mfg under one managing group......follow the money....just something to be aware of...Kz

 

[Sloan441]

Bushmaster isn't my idea of a first line manufacturer, but we'll see how it goes. Their QC isn't all that.

What I really wonder is how much design drift we'll see from Bushmaster's view of what is possible to produce in their plant. It'll be interesting.

 

[i303]

You know guys, I actually went to bed thinking about this sort of crap.

This may be the ideal thing for the Machaka, I'm still getting one. But I smell poo-poo here on the models to be released and what to expect. But I'll address that last.

Man you guys should see the hubub over at ARKKOM with those mall ninjas about this. They are yakking this up as much as they yakked during the AWB sunset, but about 90% negative bagging on BM.

First off, Bushmaster. Where is everyone getting poorer QC issues about BM? I know they've been making M16/M4 components for the mil for years, mostly after I got out. I know they like to "lighten" up thier AR's by ommiting things like handguard shields so eventually someone is gonna bitch when thier HG melts. But I haven't seen or heard about one serious and continous issue regarding quality about BM.

What I do notice is that quality in OTHER AR manufacturers have gotten a lot better while BM hasn't done much of anything in the last 5 or so years, until this. So as forum gun nuts act like spoiled valley girls do when "The Gap" hasn't come up with anything new in 8 months they'll say they suck. It's not like Magpul went to McDonalds to make the Machaka, or do I dare say it?......The McSada. Besides BM has always been pro-civy in marketing their guns for the masses even through the AWB. In fact one of the few "large" one's who do, if not the only large US gum company. Just look at how Colt and HK basically abandoned us these last 15 years.

Magpul's move is quite ambitious, so it makes perfect sense. They could have, and maybe already have gone to Colt, FN, Armalite and got told to pound sand. BM said "sure". They already make the barrels, triggers, and I don't know if it's exact, but the bolt is at least 90% what the AR bolt is like. And they are big enough to quicky come up with the tooling to make the receiver, gas assy., and bolt group. Magpul will just continue to make the plastic parts.

I know BM has been gobbled up by the big conglomerate Cerebus. That news went over everyone like no one cared. But they are caring now with Masada in the loop. I know this made Cerebus stock take a good leap because let's face it, Remington ain't gonna get hardly any mil/le contracts, BM is so-so in that arena. They will flood the market with McSada's and take over like a storm. There is no doubt that the McSada will be mass produced and every dealer from The Sportsmen Warehouse located at nearby malls to Ma and Pa FFL'ers can and will get one. They sell to EVERYONE. Don't believe me, do their dealer search and punch in 85603 or 85364. All but one are small time ffl's. Shoot, maybe Roy is listed in there if not you's better be. There is nothing like BM sticking it up the ass of Colt, FN, and HK and a huge growth hormone for BM/Cerebus.

My gripe, I see that they will attain their goal of coming out with a Masada for $1400 bucks, maybe a few bones less for those of us with ffl pals. If you notice how the first 3 will be released, one a 12" with a folder, a 16" NON-folder, and a 18" also NON-folder. So what we'll see is the 16" non-folder for 1400, the 18" non-folder around 1700-1800, and unless you do the NFA and IF you find one, but I'm sure the 12" will be strictly a LEO/MIL marketed gun at first. Then LATER for about 400 bucks MORE Masada will offer us the folding stock stand alone, or tack on another 300 to the 1400 16" and 18" for a folding option, plus they'll offer conversion kits down the road for a good chunk of change but I expected that anyways.

Overall, after some thought, I see this as 85% good, and 15% evil.

Everyone was wondering how Magpul was going to pull this one off. Now we know.



It now also explains this because I was wondering. "WTH do they have that's new?":

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=1&t=660461


other info:

Cerebus:
http://www.cerberuscapital.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus

Remington:
http://www.remington.com/library/press/2007/2007-2.asp
http://www.milbank.com/en/NewsEvent...ion_Acquisition_of_Remington_Arms_Company.htm

Bushmaster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management

interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_Firearms_International


Added: apparently the Cerberus buying BM before Remington was news to me. I thought it was the other way around with Remington buying BM the Cerberus buying Rem.

So one has to wonder how many comanies owned bt Cerberus has, or HAD, anti-gun support affiliation?

 

[Bravo]

BM quality, two points.

One of my great good friends is a DOE shooter. He related that the DOE training weapons are used continuously - as in one group gets trained, then goes back to their weapons that they left when they headed for the course. The next group coming in to get trained leaves their weapons and uses the ones just left by the earlier group. Everyone at the course (all shooters have yearly refresher training) runs the course with the course weapons only. As such, the training rifles see incredible ammo throughput, hard use, and abuse. Made me think of the old A1s in bootcamp. The training rifles are torn down yearly, everything that is worn out or questionable gets junked and replaced. He said that several parts in the Colt rifles are scrapped, but most of the Bushies were scrapped. Granted, this is a worst-case scenario, and unless you're firing ammo by the semi truck load probably a difference that will go unseen....... but it's there. Which was why they had Colts and Bushies there both - they'd moved away from the Bushies.

One of the fellows I've known for many years is both an armorer and instructor at a major shooting school. The school maintains racks of weapons for rental, for the folks that don't want to deal with the hassle of bringing their own gear and such. The last time I was there visiting, I noted the new brand of AR in the racks, and inquired about that. He said that the other carbines gave too many malfs and breakages...... I won't mention the name brands (he wasn't supposed to comment on this, so I'm not 'outing' what anyone tells me in confidence!) but you can estimate that I'm relating this for a purpose. According to him, the malfs and breakages were greatly diminished when they switched brands - the previous brand had been purchased with an eye to cost being the most important quality. Again, these weapons aren't 'the norm', but closer to a worst-case scenario. For most everyone, the difference would go unseen, but is there.

FWIW

 

[Sloan441]

Bushmaster Carbon 15.

Bushmaster M17S.

That right there says quite a bit. Both are/were truly miserable excuses for firearms. I had a ringside seat for an M17S fiasco and, man, did that leave an impression.

Also, I used to shoot with a fair number of guys with Bushie ARs. The gun didn't really seem quite in the same league as the Colt, but to me they're all ARs and therefore suspect. Still, the owners seemed to have more trouble overall than the Colt guys. A couple were probably due to said owner, but one guy was pretty switched on and still seemed to have some issues with his.

Like I said, we'll see how it turns out. The Masada was never on my "top ten" list of things to buy these next couple of years, but I'm interested to see how this all comes out in the end. You never know, after all.

 

[MickeyC]

Ho Hum! What will be will be. The more delayed it becomes, the more attractive the SCAR or existing LWRC, POF and LMT piston uppers become.

 

[i303]

At least we have those options. I'm still getting the McSada. Now, after some thought I'm changing my good to evil ratio from 85:15 to 70:30.

Reason being that Cerebus could do like Colt and all of the sudden just on a whim dump the civvie gun market with BM. This will leave Magpul in a bind because it looks as if they "partnered up" with BM, but that could mean many things. Like selling your soul to the devil.

And the problem with big conglomerates is the big issues that come with it. Outsourcing, labor management, budgeting constraints, parting out, etc. It looks as if the big bosses let their owned companies do what they want as long as they turn profits.

Now why cant I find the Space Needle Dr. Evil Starbucks Headquarters image in google?

 

[va_plinker]

This might move the SCAR up on my list. (XCR-PDW is #1)

I'm just not sold on BM being able to put out the quality plastic that Masada will demand. We'll have to see.


So, does this cause anyone left out of the game to take a hard look at the XCR?

 

[va_plinker]

It looks like Magpul will still be making the plastic parts.

 

[TerraShrewsbury]

Stinkbugfish lives on!

 

[variablebinary]

Do you really think so VB?


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=158557

Yeah I do. All good things with this deal.

 

[Guest]

I'm not entirely sure how one company can develop a weapon which needs to be time tested and field tested further, and then to get it into production, sell it off to a larger company which cannot respond to modifications and changes as well as a smaller company, and expect that to be a good thing.

Now BM can bring a lot of resources and if managed closely by magpul, it could be done, but that kind of goes against conventional wisdom.

It's my understanding that bushmaster make fine AR's, I would expect them to be able to keep quality control high enough to be satisfactory.

my take? dunno, it could be good if done right, but i think it's to early to declare the masada ready for anything except more testing.