I received my replacement magazines today for the bad batch returned several weeks ago and now 10 out of 20 of the replacement magazines have a new type of defect. The feed lips are too close together that the ammo either doesn’t fit between the lips or has to be forced.
C Products 7.62 Replacement Mags - Ammo will not fit between feed lips
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Seems like they have slipped, very badly.
Small company doing too much, too fast?!
I had high hopes for them, the lack of quality control has turned me.
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did you get the magazines from us directly or from c products?
The magazines were purchased directly from C products. This is my second batch of magazines with the first batch being defective.
The feeds lips that are problematic are approximately 6/8" apart. The narrowing occurs toward the back of the magazines. I have some magazines where it is nearly impossible to force the ammo down between the feed lips. It seems that the lips on the magazines that work are somewhere between 7/8” to 1/2” apart. Not all the magazines I have exhibited this problem.
I am using Wolf steel case ammo 122 gr fmj poly coated.
The feeds lips that are problematic are approximately 6/8" apart. The narrowing occurs toward the back of the magazines. I have some magazines where it is nearly impossible to force the ammo down between the feed lips. It seems that the lips on the magazines that work are somewhere between 7/8” to 1/2” apart. Not all the magazines I have exhibited this problem.
I am using Wolf steel case ammo 122 gr fmj poly coated.
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the gun industry is like that
It has never seemed to me that a magazine should be a device that is difficult to manufacture correctly. I mean holy hell, in this case its nothing more than a piece of stamped sheet metal, right? How hard can it possibly be?
Yet time and again across the industry, it seems to be a hangup.
Well hopefully they will get it sorted out. Seems like there have to be some good ones out there, seeing as there are a number of "perfect function" range reports.
Yet time and again across the industry, it seems to be a hangup.
Well hopefully they will get it sorted out. Seems like there have to be some good ones out there, seeing as there are a number of "perfect function" range reports.
ny, most likely, the bodies, which include the feed lips, are manufactured on highly automated stamping machines. Machine setup and monitoring is critical as mags have closer tolerances than most products in the same price range made on the same machines. I doubt C-Products does all of their own stamping (but I could be wrong), and sub-ed out at least some manufacturing to boost production.
Since the basic design seems to be solid for the initial range reports, I expect that the quality of the mags will improve as time goes on. At least C-Products warrants them and will replace them without question. Just be picky about the mags you get and have C-Products replace any questionable ones.
Of course this speaks volumes about the current state of American manufacturing industry.
Since the basic design seems to be solid for the initial range reports, I expect that the quality of the mags will improve as time goes on. At least C-Products warrants them and will replace them without question. Just be picky about the mags you get and have C-Products replace any questionable ones.
Of course this speaks volumes about the current state of American manufacturing industry.
I work for a company that makes electric meters. Involved in that is the in house manufacture of metal components and electronic components, which presents entirely different sets of manufacturing challenges. Add to that the QC of quite a few outsourced plastic components, the requirement for precision placement of *all* those components (within thousandths for many of them) to get a functioning product... and that doesn't even begin to touch on all the software R&D that goes into it. The legacy stuff can retail for ~90 bucks or less. A magazine is an *extremely* simple device by comparison, yet still retails for.. what are they, 20 or 30 bucks each? They don't require that proportion of engineering know-how. Not even close. I just don't believe it.
This is one of two main reasons I did not preorder a x39 kit. With a new source for the mags, I guessed there would be a high probability of some kind of issues, and that is proving to be true. Why are they not doing final QC on 100% of these shipments, since they *know* there is a pattern of issues, and they *know* these issues are not sorted out? It really is quite amazing.
As far as using AK magazines on an XCR or other next gen rifle, that is not something that I personally have any interest in, though I can see how it would appeal to some. If you are using an AK magazine, you are essentially giving up many of the advantages the XCR has over AK's. If I wanted to shoot an AK, I would do that. Just my personal opinion... To me a SCARspec rifle needs basic features like a functioning bolt catch and reasonably fast mag changes, and if they can't get the magazine right to allow for that, I'll just save $1100 and buy an AK to start with if I just have to shoot x39. But I digress...
Hopefully they can get the magazine issues worked out. As long as there are some working examples out there, it should just be a matter of time/refining their manufacturing process.
This is one of two main reasons I did not preorder a x39 kit. With a new source for the mags, I guessed there would be a high probability of some kind of issues, and that is proving to be true. Why are they not doing final QC on 100% of these shipments, since they *know* there is a pattern of issues, and they *know* these issues are not sorted out? It really is quite amazing.
As far as using AK magazines on an XCR or other next gen rifle, that is not something that I personally have any interest in, though I can see how it would appeal to some. If you are using an AK magazine, you are essentially giving up many of the advantages the XCR has over AK's. If I wanted to shoot an AK, I would do that. Just my personal opinion... To me a SCARspec rifle needs basic features like a functioning bolt catch and reasonably fast mag changes, and if they can't get the magazine right to allow for that, I'll just save $1100 and buy an AK to start with if I just have to shoot x39. But I digress...
Hopefully they can get the magazine issues worked out. As long as there are some working examples out there, it should just be a matter of time/refining their manufacturing process.
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Back in the day during weapons training I got to see some Russian training films and one involved spetznaz drills. Trust me with the right reload process AK mags drop free and can be changed very quickly. Also if you count your rounds the lack of a bolt hold open is no big deal and in dirty or wet environments can actually be a bonus and the working parts are not held open for crap and debris to enter. HK rifles and sub machine guns have done very well over the years with paddle releases and there is a contentious thread in this forum regarding SIG 55x/556 and how people would rather have the original SIG magazines and releases.
I agree though that magazine manufacture and design is hardly rocket science. Once you get the spring tension, feed lip design and follower angle correct and make a tool pattern, the actual manufacture should be straight forward. I suspect it is simply a quality issue in the factory or from their suppliers.
I agree though that magazine manufacture and design is hardly rocket science. Once you get the spring tension, feed lip design and follower angle correct and make a tool pattern, the actual manufacture should be straight forward. I suspect it is simply a quality issue in the factory or from their suppliers.
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I say chalk it up to POOOOOOP happens ;D.I think if this would have happened a year down the road it wouldn't be a big deal ,but since it's right at the beginning and everyones' getting their x39 kits and magazines,it's creating some anxiety.No,building a sheetmetal box with a spring and follower shouldn't be all that complicated.
In all fairness however,we Americans are used to getting what we want NOW.What I'm getting at is ,we bitch if we don't have this or that by such and such time.I'm not saying development was rushed ,but very possibly hurried to try to keep favor with the buying shooting public.Besides what major company of any product hasn't had a snafu at one or multiple times in their history???
About the AK mags,It's kinda the same deal for g3 mags in the xcr medium.Imo IF you lose the ergonomics,then it's not worth it.Opinions will differ,but to me one of the major attractions to this(xcr) weapons system is the handing qualities.That being somewhat offset by the availability and cost of proprietary magazines.Like I've said before it's a shitty tradeoff.I have a ptr-91 and an AK,and I can work em' both with a fair amount of rapidity,but compared to the ease of the xcr...it's just no comparison
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In all fairness however,we Americans are used to getting what we want NOW.What I'm getting at is ,we bitch if we don't have this or that by such and such time.I'm not saying development was rushed ,but very possibly hurried to try to keep favor with the buying shooting public.Besides what major company of any product hasn't had a snafu at one or multiple times in their history???
About the AK mags,It's kinda the same deal for g3 mags in the xcr medium.Imo IF you lose the ergonomics,then it's not worth it.Opinions will differ,but to me one of the major attractions to this(xcr) weapons system is the handing qualities.That being somewhat offset by the availability and cost of proprietary magazines.Like I've said before it's a shitty tradeoff.I have a ptr-91 and an AK,and I can work em' both with a fair amount of rapidity,but compared to the ease of the xcr...it's just no comparison
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Below is a response posted on AR15.com from Larry regarding the problem with the feed lips.
No one will be out any money. Let me repeat that so everyone understands...NO ONE WILL BE OUT ANY MONEY. If you have shipping costs that need to be refunded all you have to do is e-mail me [email protected] and I will will send you a check or product.
As far as anyone getting returned magazines that do not work....from what has been described, you did not get the new design. With the new design the feedlip area has been opened not closed. I can't explain why, but I am at the plant and will make sure we get this straightened out.
Larry
C Products
Posted :: Today 7:37:24 AM
No one will be out any money. Let me repeat that so everyone understands...NO ONE WILL BE OUT ANY MONEY. If you have shipping costs that need to be refunded all you have to do is e-mail me [email protected] and I will will send you a check or product.
As far as anyone getting returned magazines that do not work....from what has been described, you did not get the new design. With the new design the feedlip area has been opened not closed. I can't explain why, but I am at the plant and will make sure we get this straightened out.
Larry
C Products
Posted :: Today 7:37:24 AM
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C products has been very good about correct mistakes. I have no doubt they will take care of their customers. I still believe Robarm made the right choice with a 7.62x39 mag that fits a STANAG platform.
Nothing good would come from jamming AK mags into an XCR.
Nothing good would come from jamming AK mags into an XCR.
I have another thread somewhere about "AR" 7.62x39 magazines. I have tried about every AR type 7.62x39 mag out there, having owned a Colt 7.62x39 upper for years and years........ that said NONE have been reliable. :2cents:
I hope Cproducts is up to fixing that problem, then I can dig in my gun safe and reserect my Colt upper. ;D ;D ;D The caliber shoots great in an AR, and I will bet XCR platform, but the mags are the problem.
I hope Cproducts is up to fixing that problem, then I can dig in my gun safe and reserect my Colt upper. ;D ;D ;D The caliber shoots great in an AR, and I will bet XCR platform, but the mags are the problem.
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Hopefully they get it sorted out, I wouldnt mind having a x39 kit. I wish more companies made mags for it though, Id love to see a Magpul Maglevel P-Mag....
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