I named this board "XCR Heavy 7.62×51mm NATO (.308 Winchester)" since I don't know if it'll come out as a 7.62x51mm or a .308 Winchester. The calibers aren't exactly the same so if someone finds out for sure I'll rename the thread. (My understanding is that you can shoot a 7.62x51mm round in a .308 rifle but not the other way around.)
CAN WE GET A XCR HEAVY DISCUSSION
I have never owned a .308 rifle and I was going to go for a DSA carbine. I now hear they are going to make a XCR in .308, anyone else know anything about this?
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I've got a feeling that many manufacturers are starting to stray away from .308's because of recent and humongous price increase in ammo, I believe mostly due to surplus exhaustion from need in Iraq. Metal cost, dollar devaluation, the UN are "the other" factors, but manufacturers are working OT to supply the US and other governments. When that rush is over I see 5.56 hugely available and to some extent 308 but seeing how 308 ran dry pretty quick now shows what is in the future for 308. 6.8 military future is up in the air but it is one round that somebody somewhere is going to want in demand b/c it is currently the best option to convert anything AR like into a bigger caliber. Personally, if someone got off their duff and made quality 7.62x39 mags for AR wells they will make a killing.
I had no idea 7.62x51 and .308 where not one in the same. I guess you learn something every day.
I understand the reluctance to put out a new rifle in a caliber that from what I understand is getting expensive to shoot. However, I am currently saving for a DSA carbine because while I might not get to shoot it as much, it would still be interesting to have the larger round.
Of course if Robinson SAYS they will be offering it, well then I will just have to keep saving until they come out with it!
I understand the reluctance to put out a new rifle in a caliber that from what I understand is getting expensive to shoot. However, I am currently saving for a DSA carbine because while I might not get to shoot it as much, it would still be interesting to have the larger round.
Of course if Robinson SAYS they will be offering it, well then I will just have to keep saving until they come out with it!
According to Wikipedia (most of the time they have good info):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_WinchesterWhile the .308 Winchester and 7.62 × 51 mm cartridges are generally identical, there are minor differences in their case dimensions and chambering specifications that should be noted. The 7.62 × 51 mm is smaller by a few thousandths of an inch in some dimensions.[1] This can lead to excessive chamber pressures if a .308 Winchester cartridge is fired in a 7.62 × 51 mm chamber. However, the opposite should present no problems.
I broke down and bought a DSA FAL for the same reason. Given how hard it is for Robinson to produce the XCR in numbers to satisfy the demand I figured it would be awhile before they got around to a .308.
I got a DSA SA58 Para in 16" barrel. The DSA is a great rifle. I consider it the current XCR version for the 308. I also have a PTR91KP and have had M1A's and Hk91's before. I consider the SA58 (FALs) superior to the others as far as being the go to gun, although I think the Hk are sexier looking. But being sexy won't count in a life or death situation, right? If RA ever does come out w/a 308 (7.62x51) version I think that will be even a better gun. Although I liked my M1A'a they have passed their prime and the FAL, then Hk G3 were more advanced in their time. I've also had QC issues with my M1A's, twice I've had extractors fly down range on 2 different M1A's. Luckly I found the extractor and spring in the dirt both times. But as I have said the current price and availability of 308 ammo WILL impact any future 308 combat rifle being considered for production.
I still plan to get an AR10. Wanna know why? I want to use it for deer hunting just so I can say I hunt with an AR.
I still plan to get an AR10. Wanna know why? I want to use it for deer hunting just so I can say I hunt with an AR.
Mine is a Para Congo with 18" barrel, extended extreme duty scope mount, full length rail interface handguard, and SAW grips, all Duracoated black. I may take it hunting with me this season just to say I did as well. Any ideas on the best source of short magazines?
Speaking of magazines, I just picked up 20 Magpul plastic Pmags with the covers. Nice, although I haven't been to the range with them yet.
Speaking of magazines, I just picked up 20 Magpul plastic Pmags with the covers. Nice, although I haven't been to the range with them yet.
If RA does produce a .308 XCR I think that the FAL will be the rifle standard they will have to top. The FAL has so much going for it. It is a proven design with countless rounds fired in conflict. Parts are everywhere and they are readily available for the most part.
If/When they do, I hope they use DPMS/KAC .308 magazines.
FAL mags would be nice too, if they can get them to work.
FAL mags would be nice too, if they can get them to work.
BTW, I found 5 round magazines on DSA's website and picked one up for hunting. I'm hoping to hit the range tomorrow to start the break in process.
I'd like to see HK G3 magazines get the nod for this. I've got a metric ton of the things and I don't want to buy new magazines!
+A million ;DI'd like to see HK G3 magazines get the nod for this. I've got a metric ton of the things and I don't want to buy new magazines!
they are plentiful, cheap, robust, and work great...please robarm, use these mags!
Do the G3 mags drop free like AR mags? If so, I would vote for those. If not, I guess they will have to use some sort of AR-10 mag, unless they want to totally switch up the characteristics of a mag change.
FAL mags are great, cheap, robust, available in the millios, I already have them, but alas... they do rock in and use an AK style mag catch, which would be quite a departure from the XCR-L.
FAL mags are great, cheap, robust, available in the millios, I already have them, but alas... they do rock in and use an AK style mag catch, which would be quite a departure from the XCR-L.
G3 mags are drop free magazines--in design. In actual HKs, well, they usually will, but sometimes do not. It's a HK91/G3 thing. Generally, an empty G3 mag won't drop free, but one with a few rounds in it will. Steel HK91 mags will drop free, but as has been hinted, they weigh a ton, so they get a boost from gravity when you hit the mag release.
Worst case, you might have to yank the thing out after it drops a quarter inch. There's no rock and lock with G3s. Just friction from the magwell. Hell, let me run a quick experiment (haven't played with my 91 in over a year)...haha, how embarrassing. I'll have to eat all these words. This is what happens when you rely on aging memory.
OK, HK mags aren't rock and lock. G3s (and HK91s) have a push button release. However, magwells are pretty tight on them. Soooo, mags don't drop free. A full G3 mag drops about a 1/16 inch at best. So you do have to pull them out--of a G3. Personally, I don't have a problem with this, but I do know that guys from the AR side of things like their speed reloads. I'm pretty sure Robinson could make them drop free, but I'm not sure what sort of tolerances HK (or their vendors) found acceptable on magazines.
Still, these things are super abundant, dirt cheap, and VERY stout--even the alloy G3 mags. The steel HK91 mags could be used as field expediant hammers and be none the worse for wear. I still think they'd be the best choice for the XCR-H.
Worst case, you might have to yank the thing out after it drops a quarter inch. There's no rock and lock with G3s. Just friction from the magwell. Hell, let me run a quick experiment (haven't played with my 91 in over a year)...haha, how embarrassing. I'll have to eat all these words. This is what happens when you rely on aging memory.
OK, HK mags aren't rock and lock. G3s (and HK91s) have a push button release. However, magwells are pretty tight on them. Soooo, mags don't drop free. A full G3 mag drops about a 1/16 inch at best. So you do have to pull them out--of a G3. Personally, I don't have a problem with this, but I do know that guys from the AR side of things like their speed reloads. I'm pretty sure Robinson could make them drop free, but I'm not sure what sort of tolerances HK (or their vendors) found acceptable on magazines.
Still, these things are super abundant, dirt cheap, and VERY stout--even the alloy G3 mags. The steel HK91 mags could be used as field expediant hammers and be none the worse for wear. I still think they'd be the best choice for the XCR-H.
Well I guess I'd have to vote for G3 mags then.
I'm a lefty, so my AR reloads consist of grabbing the mag with my right hand, pressing the button with my thumb, and pulling the mag out. I find it more reliable that way anyway, since not all mags are actually going to drop all the way out anyway. By "drop free", I guess I mainly meant, do they insert and pull out straight, and use a button (like an AR) rather than rock and lock/hinged lever like an AK/FAL.
I would assume that in the interest of maintaining the same type operating characterists between models, Robinson would want to go with a mag design that allows for straight insertion and removal. But I guess time will tell.
I'm a lefty, so my AR reloads consist of grabbing the mag with my right hand, pressing the button with my thumb, and pulling the mag out. I find it more reliable that way anyway, since not all mags are actually going to drop all the way out anyway. By "drop free", I guess I mainly meant, do they insert and pull out straight, and use a button (like an AR) rather than rock and lock/hinged lever like an AK/FAL.
I would assume that in the interest of maintaining the same type operating characterists between models, Robinson would want to go with a mag design that allows for straight insertion and removal. But I guess time will tell.
Subscribing for new updates on the XCR-M in .308. Any new info when this will be released?
I don't think there is even any info on it being in development. So, if it is released, it probably will not be anytime soon.Subscribing for new updates on the XCR-H in .308. Any new info when this will be released?
I was going by the FAQ on the Robarm webpage.
http://www.robarm.com/XCR_FAQ_Answers.htm#Will_there_be_an_XCR_in_.308
Has this been canceled?
http://www.robarm.com/XCR_FAQ_Answers.htm#Will_there_be_an_XCR_in_.308
Has this been canceled?
Interesting, I hadn't seen that before. Something tells me it won't be released in early 2008 though.I was going by the FAQ on the Robarm webpage.
http://www.robarm.com/XCR_FAQ_Answers.htm#Will_there_be_an_XCR_in_.308
Has this been canceled?
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