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Looks like CMMG is making a 4.6x30 (think MP7) AR/upper with 40 round mags. Looks like Fiocchi makes 4.6 and is currently around 80 cpr. Not cheap, but a little cheaper than 5.7 currently.

This might catch some MP7 fans who don’t have any other options currently. Guess it’ll fall into the niche of 5.7, 22TCM and others like them.



Machine gun Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Shotgun
 

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Probably mainly for those who want an MP7 but can't afford it. I don't see the draw to this or the 5.7 or frankly 9mm subguns.... I just don't see the splits being that reduced over 5.56 with subpar ballistics.
 

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Probably mainly for those who want an MP7 but can't afford it. I don't see the draw to this or the 5.7 or frankly 9mm subguns.... I just don't see the splits being that reduced over 5.56 with subpar ballistics.
Let me pick your brain on this then. You'd prefer an SBR/pistol in 5.56 than any 9mm/5.7/et al PCC? Even at shorter barrels, I think 5.56 has more muzzle energy than any of the subgun calibers, but aren't you concerned about the concussion of the blast or reduced accuracy?
 

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Let me pick your brain on this then. You'd prefer an SBR/pistol in 5.56 than any 9mm/5.7/et al PCC? Even at shorter barrels, I think 5.56 has more muzzle energy than any of the subgun calibers, but aren't you concerned about the concussion of the blast or reduced accuracy?
Reduced accuracy? At the distances you'd use a subgun? I don't notice any decrease in usable accuracy...especially at speed and like I said, you're not dropping much of anything in splits when compared to 9mm.

Concussion? Sure. But setting off any gun inside a building without ear pro isn't fun.....a can helps with either situation, but isn't always feasible to add the extra length. I don't run a brake on my HD AR for that reason.

Are we mainly talking 9mm here? B/c 5.7 and 4.6 are both high velocity rounds....and I'm admittedly unfamiliar with them in terms of actually shooting either. I'd imagine that neither are particularly less concussive than 5.56....for that very reason.

As for less recoil?

Seems like that's the big draw....but watching some other videos on penetration vs. 5.7 and 9mm....for the cost/availability currently, it's not all that competitive.

Since I tend to envision the most likely scenario of violent home invasion to be law enforcement kicking in the door (more so likely in the current political climate), I want a caliber that is likely to defeat everything but Level IV (obviously black tip would be nice....but not real easy to come by any more) or do major damage to hips/heads since that's where I'd be aiming.

BTW, I'd recommend this:

They make a cheaper version that is actually stronger...$40.

It's here:

The NIGHTLOCK® Original Door Brace & Barricade

At worst, it will buy you several seconds of time (depending on the strength of your door jamb/frame).....or may even stop a battering ram (again, depending on your door's construction) and is really easy to install even in concrete/tiled floors (provided you have a hammer drill and masonry bits)

ETA: Keep in mind, some shithead states have made it illegal to install such devices in your home....b/c they want the state to be able to accost you in your home.
 
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Are we mainly talking 9mm here? B/c 5.7 and 4.6 are both high velocity rounds....and I'm admittedly unfamiliar with them in terms of actually shooting either. I'd imagine that neither are particularly less concussive than 5.56....for that very reason.
That's right; I haven't seen muzzle velocity charts for 5.7 and 4.6 lately, but I recall now they were originally designed to allow rear-guard NATO troops to penetrate Soviet paratrooper armor. Whether they could actually do so is in doubt, if you can believe that the Soviets would have been able to armor their paratroopers with titanium plates:


I think I heard somewhere that 5.7 could penetrate Level IIIA at most, depending on the grain. Anyway, when I tried a friend's PS-90 a few times it seemed to sound a lot like a 9mm handgun or less (under earpro), my XCR with the default flash hider at the time was a lot brassier and seemed louder.

Since I tend to envision the most likely scenario of violent home invasion to be law enforcement kicking in the door (more so likely in the current political climate), I want a caliber that is likely to defeat everything but Level IV (obviously black tip would be nice....but not real easy to come by any more) or do major damage to hips/heads since that's where I'd be aiming.
Honestly, if the law was coming for any of us in force (unless we were already gone, had the entrances lined with defensive explosives, and/or had the gun-fu of John Wick), we'd end up like Breonna Taylor if we put up any armed resistance regardless of what we're packing. Maybe that's just me, but the fantasies that I harbor involve lots of women who are too beautiful to exist in this world and not meaningful last stands.

BTW, I'd recommend this:
They make a cheaper version that is actually stronger...$40.
That's really cool, I wonder where I can install that in my house without people tripping over it. I just hope it's not the law coming in with a breaching shotgun or a truck-mounted battering ram when I have it.
 

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Honestly, if the law was coming for any of us in force (unless we were already gone, had the entrances lined with defensive explosives, and/or had the gun-fu of John Wick), we'd end up like Breonna Taylor if we put up any armed resistance regardless of what we're packing. Maybe that's just me, but the fantasies that I harbor involve lots of women who are too beautiful to exist in this world and not meaningful last stands.
Unfortunately, I'd call it a foreseeable future rather than a fantasy. Look at what's going on in Australia. It didn't take them long to go from disarmament to a totalitarian state. They're going in to houses and arresting people for inciting for posting support on Facebook for anti-lockdown protests. They're arresting people for going outside, which just happens to be safer than staying inside with others. Police here don't get the support they deserve for dealing with the dirtbag criminal predators that they encounter. At the same time, the majority of them wouldn't quit when ordered to do the same things that their Australian counterparts are doing. Love them for what they do, but fear them for what most would be willing to do.

That's really cool, I wonder where I can install that in my house without people tripping over it. I just hope it's not the law coming in with a breaching shotgun or a truck-mounted battering ram when I have it.
It looks to me that if the base is kept really close to a door threshold, it wouldn't be likely to be a tripping hazard. I can see the base being an issue on an inside door. I think they key to it working as designed is how well the base is secured to the floor. If the screws are just threaded down in to wood, I don't think they'd hold very well. If they're threaded down in to cement, I'd bet they'd work very well.
 

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That's right; I haven't seen muzzle velocity charts for 5.7 and 4.6 lately, but I recall now they were originally designed to allow rear-guard NATO troops to penetrate Soviet paratrooper armor. Whether they could actually do so is in doubt, if you can believe that the Soviets would have been able to armor their paratroopers with titanium plates:


I think I heard somewhere that 5.7 could penetrate Level IIIA at most, depending on the grain. Anyway, when I tried a friend's PS-90 a few times it seemed to sound a lot like a 9mm handgun or less (under earpro), my XCR with the default flash hider at the time was a lot brassier and seemed louder.



Honestly, if the law was coming for any of us in force (unless we were already gone, had the entrances lined with defensive explosives, and/or had the gun-fu of John Wick), we'd end up like Breonna Taylor if we put up any armed resistance regardless of what we're packing. Maybe that's just me, but the fantasies that I harbor involve lots of women who are too beautiful to exist in this world and not meaningful last stands.



That's really cool, I wonder where I can install that in my house without people tripping over it. I just hope it's not the law coming in with a breaching shotgun or a truck-mounted battering ram when I have it.
Thanks for your input. I've never fired either round. It's odd to me that such a small difference in mass and velocity (55 grain 5.56 moving at roughly 2500 fps out of a 10.5" bbl vs. a 40 grain 5.7x28 moving at ~2350 fps out of a 10.6" P90) would have that much of a difference in concussive force.

Were you under the impression I thought I (or my family) would survive such an encounter? I'm not under that delusion. My ONLY hope in that situation is that I take the standard (or better) 3:1 kill ratio of defenders to aggressors. Also, any such "last stand" will be swept under the rug, dismissed or characterized as a racist or pedophile (with a little help from FBI's computer forensics division planting underage porn on your devices) with an 'ARSENAL' (oh the noes!) of weapons and a cache of ammunition that could "blow up several city blocks" b/c you had a couple of ARs, an AK or 2, 4 pistols, two shotguns and 1K rounds of ammo for each caliber. :ROFLMAO:

This isn't a 'fantasy' situation....it's a worst case scenario I pray never happens....but one is a fool if he believes that by the time a raiding party is at one's door that the "just-us" system hasn't already determined one's fate, regardless of guilt and will fabricate evidence and a narrative to justify whatever action occurs at that point. Rule of law is dead AF in this country in spite of what some folks believe b/c of a stay on vaccine mandates and a Rittenhouse not guilty verdict.

By contrast, to me, there are some lines that will not be crossed. My home's threshold is one such line and I'm comfortable holding court right fucking there in spite of the fact that it's a death sentence for everyone inside b/c as Churchill pointed out, "There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." I know I've broken no law I feel at all morally obligated to follow and therefore if you bring violence to my doorstep, I'll respond in kind (and yes, I'm one of those free people who believes my moral compass works just fine and I can determine right from wrong without the government telling me or forcing me to its will....I realize that's a rarity in today's society; so be it....I can't give everyone a spine, I can only try and live up to my beliefs and mine alone).

One major reason 'no knock' warrants still exist and are overused to the degree they are today is b/c too few people put up a fight, IMO.

As for the Nightlock...depending on your door sill, you may be able to place it as close as 1/4" to the sill....so you cannot trip over it. Even if you flip the plate over and use the other end...it's still less than an inch from the door sill.

Obviously it's not going to stop shape charges or a bearcat....but a breaching shotgun wouldn't allow quick access either...they'd have to try to breach the standard lock....figure out that didn't get the door to open...then do the same to the Nightlock. I'm sure a good team trains for that....but most LEO aren't nearly as well trained as they'd have you believe and in my scenario....I'm simply buying time to get to a gun. I think it will buy me the seconds needed in that instance.
 

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Police here don't get the support they deserve for dealing with the dirtbag criminal predators that they encounter. At the same time, the majority of them wouldn't quit when ordered to do the same things that their Australian counterparts are doing. Love them for what they do, but fear them for what most would be willing to do.
Agree 100%. My Dad was military LEO (OSI to be specific) and the best man at my wedding and best friend is currently state LEO in another state. There are good men and women in law enforcement but I have serious distrust of government and our systems....IMO, with good reason.
 
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