XCR Forum banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
[UPDATE: READ WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU BUY THESE FOR YOUR XCR, THEY ARE AR MAGWELL SPECIFIC]

This is going to be a 2 part review. The first portion will compare the D&H 7.62x39 magazine with the ASC 7.62x39. The second portion will be a range test with 450 rounds, spread across 5 D&H magazines, both partial and fully loaded, out of an XCR-L keymod.

My D&H magazines were fulfilled by Wideners Reloading & Shooting supply. Order was recieved 7 days after submission.


Weight

D&H 30rnd 8.5oz
ASC "30"rnd 6.75oz

All of my D&H magazines came in at the same weight.


Body


The body has a tapered step which narrows towards the front of the magazine. It is slightly shorter in length, and more curved than the ASC. The side of the body is stamped to reduce bluging. I didn't have a caliper to measure body thickness, but it was defintely thicker than the ASC magazine body.

While loading the magazine, I noticed that the exposed edges of the body, including feed lips, were not as sharp or user-unfriendly as the ASC. I've cut myself several times on the ASC magazines, the D&H had no razor-like edges and was more friendly when loading. This is probably owed to slightly thicker body material and better finishing; most of the D&H edges were straight cut and clean(er) than the ASC edges.

Loaded vs unloaded, I noticed less than 1/32" difference between the D&H magazines. The D&H mags take about 2-3x the pressure to warp the sides vs the ASC.

The D&H do have more slop in the magwell due to the narrow step forward of the feed lips. This causes at maximum 1/8" additional slop in the magwell compared to the ASC side to side.

You cannot insert a fully loaded (30 round) D&H into the XCR with the bolt closed, it will not catch the magazine release.

Automotive design Bumper Automotive exterior Automotive wheel system Auto part

D&H left, ASC right

Automotive design Automotive exterior Auto part Bumper Font

D&H on top of the ASC

Fixture Door Wood Gas Tints and shades

ASC left, D&H right

Tire Automotive tire Tread Wheel Synthetic rubber

D&H left, ASC right
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Feed Lips

When fully loaded, the feed lips on the ASC magazines tend to bow out slightly, the D&H magazines do not suffer from this defect. Feed lip material on the D&H is the same thickness as the rest of the magazine body. Loading the ASC I wear gloves, the D&H I don't have to worry about it. The front of the D&H has more room for the round to clear the magazine.

Office supplies Gas Audio equipment Cable Wood

Front, D&H left, ASC right

Rectangle Font Electric blue Magenta Fashion accessory

Rear, ASC left, D&H right

Rectangle Material property Automotive exterior Auto part Bumper

Top, ASC top, D&H bottom
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Follower & Spring

D&H magazines have a green follower, which has significantly more tilt inside the body than the ASC's black follower. The free movement of the D&H follower allows for a smoother transition where the magazine curve starts.

The Spring on the D&H magazines is the same diamter material as the ASC, but is a couple inches longer. It also attaches to the follower more securely.

Wood Tool Font Rectangle Ladder

ASC follower top, D&H bottom

Automotive tire Gas Automotive wheel system Wood Font

ASC shows lack of follower tilt

Automotive tire Gas Fluid Automotive wheel system Auto part

D&H follower tilt

White Light Line Rectangle Toy

D&H follower top, ASC bottom

Fence Wire fencing Slope Font Rectangle

ASC guts top, D&H bottom
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Ok so I'd like to start the range review by saying that I really wanted to like these magazines, but as currently produced I still consider them a "beta" product with some rough edges.

Today I brought the 5 magazines and put 471 rounds of hotshot steel cased through them. Ambient temp was 25-30F. Gas setting of 2.

I use magpuls on the C-products magazines to protect the magazine floor plate and to keep it from cutting me up during handling; I only applied a magpul to one of the D&Hs to get a fair assessment as they come from the manufacturer.

First, my testing protocol, the issues experienced, and finally defects in the design. I loaded and fired the magazines with 5-10-15-20-25-28-30 capacities to test function of the follower and mixed loads. After each magazine was emptied in the firearm, the magazine was allowed to drop free onto the gravel covered ground and reloaded.


There were two magazine related failures of the rifle. One was a failure to feed from one of the magazines on the last round; the follower had tilted forward and changed the angle of the round in the magazine. This failure was easily cleared by locking the slide and dropping the magazine from the rifle. The second, and final failure, resulted in a failure of the rifle concluding the test.

Using my D&H with the magpul, which was in the best shape by the end of the testing, I experienced a failure of the magazine release on the rifle. During firing, the magazine fell from the rifle, in addition to 2 components. The magazine relese had seperated in the rifle, and the only piece I could find was the left hand magazine release bar; the right side magazine release and spring had ejected violently from the rifle and could not be located. This failure concluded the testing.

On one of the magazines, the follower was tilted upwards out of the magazine, but was easily re-inserted during reloading. It did not effect bolt hold open or removal from the rifle. This magazine had this problem only once during testing.

On another magazine, one of the feed lips was bent slightly. I'm assuming from being allowed to fall freely from the rifle and strike the ground. This was easily corrected with the tip of a cartridge, and had not developed into a stoppage condition by the end of testing.


Magazine Condition at the end of testing

Of the 5 magazines tested:

5 rubbed on the barrel extension in the reciever, mostly on the left side of the magazine. This deformed the front of the magazine and began marking the barrel extension. This issue is not apparent on the ASC magazines.
Rectangle Font Auto part Close-up Electric blue



5 did not allow the magazine release to fully "capture" the magazine. I believe this contributed to the failure of the rifle. This issue is not apparent on the ASC magazines.
Gas Font Office equipment Auto part Metal

Mag release how its supposed to look, with ASC/GI/Pmag etc...
Grey Font Automotive design Gas Office equipment

Empty D&H mag inserted. This was the same across all of my samples.

5 had fully intact followers, with only scuff/rub marks from cartriges. Bolt hold open in good condition.
Bumper Rectangle Automotive exterior Automotive lighting Wood


3 had damaged floor plates, with 2 of those being what I consider complete failures (although they still held full capacity and cycled properly).
Product Rectangle Font Fashion accessory Auto part


1 had a damaged magazine body near the floor plate, easily corrected with pliers.

4 had intact feed lips, with one being bent back in to shape.

5 had intact black finish.

One thing I'd like to make clear is that the magazines, even though they were somewhat beat up, still functioned well with all capacities we loaded them with, until the failure of the rifle's magazine release.

[hit post image limit]
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
[images cont. from last post]

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior Asphalt

Floor plates after testing.

Automotive tire Azure Office supplies Tints and shades Denim

Another angle of the floor plates & rear body.

Rectangle Electric blue Auto part Fashion accessory Automotive exterior

What I found on the ground after failure...

Automotive tire Grey Automotive design Gas Automotive lighting

Somethings missing...

Ok so on to my conclusion and opinion on the current defects in this magazine.

1). The magazine does not seat properly in the magwell. This is apparent in 2 areas; the rubbing and deformation of the magazine on the barrel extension and the fact that the magazine release is not fully seated when the magazine is inserted. The ASC magazines do not rub in this area, and properly actuate the magazine release/bar. I believe the magazine release failed on my rifle because it was not fully supported by the magazine, or the magazine and recoil was increasing the load on the release/bar.. It could have been a failure due to the RA design (look at how little connecting material there is for the magazine bar). I had 500 rounds through the rifle with ASC mags before this test and 471 with D&H.

2). The floor plate has too many stamped areas at the rear, creating a weak point. The floor plate design needs to change or the material thickness increased. See images above.

3). Drop test. I don't believe magazines should deform from falling less than 5' less than 10 times. We don't always have magpuls or are able to perform admin reloads.

I wanted this to be a sort of stress test on these magazines. I didn't do any push-ups like I can with my VZ58/AK mags... I know this is a stamped magazine, but I'd still like to see it improved some more. I still feel like this is an improved design over the ASC magazines if the points above can be addressed. I'll be contacting D&H tomorrow and will keep you guys informed.

EDIT:
I don't have calipers to measure the differences between the magazine retention hole on the magazines, but the D&Hs defintely has a smaller retention point than the ASC, and tabs above and below the retention point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,311 Posts
The reason that the mag won't lock in with 30 rounds may be due to the additional spring length which increases tension against the BCG. Either that, or something with the design of the follower. Great decriptive review BTW. That is what D&H should have done months ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
I've put around 1,000 rounds through my 7.62x39, using 8 ASC mags in my rotation. (Have a bunch unopened as well.) Zero problems so far, but all the issues others have had made me wait quite a while before declaring my current setup reliable.

I'll be interested to read your range reports on the D&H mags -- thanks for posting this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
806 Posts
Great review so far. I'll be following it. I've moded my ASC mags and have had zero problems. I'd prefer to NOT have to mod them...

Paul


PS
The manufacturers should be sending you samples...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
276 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
The folks at D&H followed up with me about an hour after I called them. I spoke with the head of the tactical products division and one of their engineers.

They are aware of the floor plate issue and are still working on these magazines. They desgined these 7.62x39 magazines for the AR magwell, and aparently the XCR magwell has different geometry. This caused the magazine to move in the magwell and rub on the barrel extension, and the issue with the magazine release not seating correctly. They are currently working with Robinson to develop an XCR specific magazine series, but they are still in developement.

They agreed to swap out my magazines when the XCR specific magazines become available. Robinson will be handling the annoucement of when the magazines will be available for our platform.


In conclusion, its a great AR magazine for x39. I'd probably run magpuls or something to protect the magazine floor. I'll be swapping out for the XCR mags when they become available, and will post another review on those when I recieve them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Roflcopters, thanks for doing this. You have saved a bunch of folks a lot of time, expense, and frustration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
349 Posts
The folks at D&H followed up with me about an hour after I called them. I spoke with the head of the tactical products division and one of their engineers.

They are aware of the floor plate issue and are still working on these magazines. They desgined these 7.62x39 magazines for the AR magwell, and aparently the XCR magwell has different geometry. This caused the magazine to move in the magwell and rub on the barrel extension, and the issue with the magazine release not seating correctly. They are currently working with Robinson to develop an XCR specific magazine series, but they are still in developement.

They agreed to swap out my magazines when the XCR specific magazines become available. Robinson will be handling the annoucement of when the magazines will be available for our platform.


In conclusion, its a great AR magazine for x39. I'd probably run magpuls or something to protect the magazine floor. I'll be swapping out for the XCR mags when they become available, and will post another review on those when I recieve them.
I received mine today. They have the same issue in my AR15 as they do in my XCR. They fit loose and rock forward. The mag release will not return to the normal position in either gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,084 Posts
After reading the range report....these mags don't sound like they are a solution at all....at least at present. Any ETA on the "improved" version?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I received mine today. They have the same issue in my AR15 as they do in my XCR. They fit loose and rock forward. The mag release will not return to the normal position in either gun.
Hi,

Thanks for the report, it's very informative. The D & H 7.62x39 mags based on the descriptions given of the lock up magazines in the mag well are not fully STANAG compliant. A STANAG compliant mag should lock up fine. It sounds like an issue with the stamping that could be fixed with a needle file, but that raises it's own issues.

Best Wishes:
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top