[i303]

Calling in all gun geeks! Tzoid, Prizm, VB, Bravo, etc. Those tards that got to go to Da Show!

Anyone has any first hand experience with an Elcan Specter DR? I did cruise the Itraweb for someone who has serious "internet testing" experience. I've found some long posts that sounded like the typical gun rag advertisement and about 3 negative short posts here and there. Short posts don't tell me squat. In those posts it said they loose zero when flipping from 1x to 4x and the mounts suck. So does that mean are they throwing them off moving vehicles? Maybe they are just all around retards or a 17 year old Seal poser. In other words, lacking in accreditation.

I'm about to drop some moola on one for my beloved XCR on a 'speshul deal'. Tan one, will clash with my XCR, but not my shoes. Maybe if I paint my nails a......never mind.

Besides, where I live at I will be 'tanning' the XCR.

'Surruslie', let me kah-noe.


http://www.nitevis.com/SpecterDR_Detail.htm

 

[Bravo]

Me personally, I don't care for the MGO mount. Dunno if the new Spectre uses the same mount as the MGO, but if so, I'd pass.

 

[i303]

What's MGO?

You guys and your gun lingo. Psshht!

It has the ARMS type. I'm familiar with these,apparently I'm behind the times and it's now passe. But it was da shizzle fo' sho' a few years back.

But 'surruslie', what's MGO?

I Googled it. No help.

 

[Ranly]

I'm a Marine Force Delta Seal or "MFDS", and in my personal experience that is the single most Aw-some sight on earth, when I was in Panama fighting the Greeks, my Elcan specter DR took a Detect hit from a 90mm airburst HellFire Missile, and it still worked the glass fogged up a little, but I just wiped it on my Titanium threaded shirt to clear it. I'll tell you those damn Greeks are some people you dont want to mess with, unless you only have the best top of the line technology stuffs, like the Elcan specter DR the Magpul Masada and thermal night vision, the thermal night vision actually comes in handy in daylight to because it lets me see through walls.

 

[Bravo]

MGO = Machine Gun Optic. Also a Elcan, but old school. The Canooks also used them on their C7s (Canadian flat-top M16).

The thing on the MGO is the pin up front joining the base to the optic (where the elevation pivots) and the slide-thing for the windage adjustment. The MGO windage & elevation are in the base, external to the scope itself.

Those are 'weak points'. As I said though, I don't know if the Spectre uses the same system of mount (where the elevation / windage is in the mount itself) that the regular Elcan does. That whole base thing turned me off of Elcan - although I understand their new thermal optic (I haven't messed with that one - at least not yet) is nifty.

For thermal, we use hand-helds. They're pretty good, all-in-all, although the newer stuff is even better.

FWIW (For What It's Worth) ;D

 

[1redgmc]

I'm a Marine Force Delta Seal or "MFDS", and in my personal experience that is the single most Aw-some sight on earth, when I was in Panama fighting the Greeks, my Elcan specter DR took a Detect hit from a 90mm airburst HellFire Missile, and it still worked the glass fogged up a little, but I just wiped it on my Titanium threaded shirt to clear it. I'll tell you those damn Greeks are some people you dont want to mess with, unless you only have the best top of the line technology stuffs, like the Elcan specter DR the Magpul Masada and thermal night vision, the thermal night vision actually comes in handy in daylight to because it lets me see through walls.

FUNNY! +1 for Ranly

 

[Jbpark55]

I know I would like to have one with a XCR-M. 8)

 

[i303]

MGO, ooohhh. Should have known. : lol

My brain is currently full of acronyms and it's meanings. So It will reside in my STM storage banks until I see it again.

The last time I messed around with MGO's was that contraption used on M60 and M2HB (50 cal MG) that attached that PVS4 and TVS4 (The big mothers of all NVS's). They were attached using a pair of steel plates sandwich held together with battery holddown type of rods and perspective wing nuts.

Optics and their mounts have sure come a long way.

Yeah, the Specter DR has the external thingymajigs. I know they look like a weak point. However I believe my days of scaling 10 foot concrete walls are over. Well......with a full combat load that is. As soon as I say shit like that the next thing I know I'm doing it saying to myself "WTF am I doing?" as I 'plop' over a wall and on the other side head first (hey thats why God gave us arms-to stop our falls) usually onto a pile of dog crap in someone's back yard. Butt!....that's another story.

But I do see how it is an issue of Elcan's funky chicken mounts not being totally grunt (i.e. me) proof. But I don't think I will be doing it with my personal weapons. They get used hard but at the end of the day they go into a nice padded case and I give them foot massages and put them away in a nice comfy, dry, and warm safe and not strapped/dropped into to the inside of a 32 ton tracked vehicle where every thing that sticks out is called a "G dammit, m-f'ing (insert hard object name)" as it thunks your skull or smash a finger. M113's TC seats are notorious to inventing new cuss words.

Well I'm getting it anyways. I will post what I really think about it when I try it out. And no, I don't base "It's the best EEVVARRR, because it cost me $XXXX. If I hate it, there is always a sucker on e-bay to buy it, and it may just be me not necessarily the item. Such is my marriage to the AR/M16 platform. I don't love with her anymore but she's been with me for 25 years. Just though she needs some new lingerie. However it will look hot on my girlfriend the XCR. LOL

BTW looks aren't in any of my top 5 requirements. Otherwise why would I have so many AK's in non-modern form.

I also can't pass this price up. Still spendy but I've made a friend with a pretty good connection. Sorry, I can only get one.

 

[Bravo]

If I hate it, there is always a sucker on e-bay to buy it, and it may just be me not necessarily the item.

It can join my ACOG on ebay. Same thing.

I agree with your sentiments and motivations 100%.

 

[i303]

If I hate it, there is always a sucker on e-bay to buy it, and it may just be me not necessarily the item.

It can join my ACOG on ebay. Same thing.

I agree with your sentiments and motivations 100%.

You don't care for the ACOG?

I had one mounted to my assigned M4. Really nice and clear. Nice bright yellow triangle/chevron. Really showed nice when I was in the dark toolies. Looked through my ACOG and saw that nice and bright triangle. And that was about all I saw besides pitch black.

 

[tzoid]

Man I wish I could help but I'm really behind on my knowledge of optics.

Bravo is way over my head...

Did you check the optic thread in m4carbine? I found this and they don't like it at all

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5660&highlight=elcan

 

[Bravo]

Nope, I didn't much care for the ACOG. Gonna ebay mine soon I believe.

It is clear, but it sure messes with me on the up-close stuff. I don't like the magnification. I kept it thinking that I'd throw it on a rifle (308) like the XCR-M, but with the short-short eye relief, I think it's going bye-bye instead.

For carbine work, I've about decided the Aimpoint is my answer. Love the thing.

'Zoid, I haven't ever gotten on to that forum..... guess I can check it out after Church. Doesn't surprise me though - the folks that really use things hard don't care for the MGO, so no surprises.

 

[ny32182]

I have no experience with the Elcan, but from what I've read, the battery life is short... that is what would make me hesitant.

But I will be looking forward to your report.

The Canadian miliary uses them in the same role we use the ACOG, so they can't be too bad.

 

[Sloan441]

Battery life is short--like 80 hours short. It's not a red dot sight. Mixed reviews on daylight visibility.

The mount interface is also a problem with this scope. It's an ARMS mount and that isn't really acceptable anymore. I emailed Elcan if they still had the option with the thumbscrews. They said, no, but they'd make anything if you ordered enough of them...

The external mount doesn't bother me that much. It's not the same as the older optic, but it is the same concept. I haven't heard much one way or the other how it holds up. What I have heard complaints about is the battery compartment interferring with the field of view of your left eye. If you shoot with both eyes open, then you're going to see an awful lot of it. It is rather large.

I kind of like the idea of the sight, but with what it costs and mounting system issue I took a pass on it. It does cost most of what the Schimdt and Bender does and I know which one I'd want between those two and it ain't from Canada.

 

[V]

Yes a nice bit of kit for sure. But $$$$$$$$.
Made in Canada. Great optics.
2 models, one for 5.56 the other for 7.62. Each are designed for the ballistics of the round. So you have to make sure you get the correct site on the right caliber tool if you want the 4x to hit your target.
I'd love one for my XCR-M, when it comes out.

 

[ny32182]

I also remember the days when the ARMS mounts were touted as the greatest invention since sliced bread, and were the hot new gismo everyone needed.

There is always going to be a newer more stylish mount out there, IMO. Personally I wouldn't let that be a controlling part of the decision.

 

[Bravo]

The problem with the ARMS throw levers isn't that there is something out there new and more sexy.

The problem is that the ARMS rings F-A-I-L.

Trust me on this one, I've had it happen first hand. About tore my hair out trying to figure out why I couldn't hit anymore - it turned out to be the ARMS rings!

I sent them back to ARMS, they verified that I'd used the rings too much - it comes from the fact you've got an aluminum base, a steel ring, and a rollpin connecting them. Over time - and enough shooting - you'll use that rollpin as a lever and destroy the fit.

Wobble-city.

There's a certain special forces school, where a certain living legend teaches. He's got -literally- a big bag of ruined ARMS rings, all from student's rifles that have had the rings go T-U in the course. He wants to donate the bag, or at least pictures of it, to Mark LaRue. Mark wants it too - the way Mark put it to me is the picture would be used for an ad:

Guess how many broken ARMS rings are in this bag, and win a set of rings that WON'T fail.

That same instructor was the guy that turned me on to LaRue - because those were the rings he HAS NOT seen fail.

It has nothing to do about sexy, it has everything to do with not failing.

 

[SigsRule]

Good to see T-U is still in use. Ranly on another thread wasn't clear what the acronym meant.

 

[ny32182]

My money's on "tits up". ;D

(that expression gives me a chuckle).

 

[i303]

Well after much debating here about it, I'm still getting it.

I have a pair of ARMS lever mounts that I use with A Leuopold Vari-X. I often wondered by seeing how it clamps down how it would hold up to repeated use. I imagine it would wear out after sometime. But I didn't plan to take off and put back on that often. I don't buy into "zero guarantee" with any mount. You will loose something and if it is a sniper/precision rifle, I wouldn't put quick detachable mounts period. I've had those mounts long before La Rue or GG&G came out with theirs. I do like how LaRue's are set up, but I also hear of problems getting them on slighly off-spec rails. But so far my ARMS scope mounts are holding up fine.

The Elcan, apparently I don't have an option. If there were I'd take the other. I don't plan to take off and on the scope unless it is totally necessary. I have heard some gripe about the mounting and zero adjustments being outside of the scope. Elcans have the reticle etched onto the glass. Personally I don't care for all that adjustment devices being exposed. But they had them like that for some time on other scopes and I figure if there was a way to make it internal they would have done so already.

The ACOG is a good day scope for distance shooting at 100+ meters. Anything less take it off and go with sights, or put on an EO Tech or Aimpoint. And vice-versa.

This is where I see the Elcan outshines the others and I can't see how anyone can compare the ACOG, EOTech, or Aimpoint with the Elcan DR. What I do see is the others will copy what Elcan is doing.

I see the Elcan appeal is a reticle with BDC that can be a luminated point or luminated reticle, or nothing luminated. I know it was mentioned that the Elcan had 80 hrs battery, but the specs list 300 minimum to 2000 max. 300 is more than fine with me b/c I don't plan to turn it on unless necessary. The batteries are small and cheap enough to carry 2 to 6 spares. Compare that to an Aimpoint of 80,000 hours or over 9 years battery life. But it needs the dot to glow or it will be just a glass. Same with the EOTech, so longer batt life will be mandatory. 300 hours is 12 days constant use, and even if it's 80 that still is 3 days being on all the time. I would even figure the battery might outlast the Aimpoint scope that it's in.

Besides the reticle feature another key feature that I like about the Elcan, and it's something else if you are not familiar with, is the 1x to 4x flip of a swith. I'm only familiar with these on Bradley IFV ISU systems, same as M1 tanks, and Lowrance and other FLIR's. It's a bit goofy at first if all you've used are zoom devices. But instant mag power I think is better that zooming in and out. I mean how many of us use a 3 to 9 power scope on just 5? We either have it on 3 for a wide FOV or up close or on 9 when we want to hit a certain spot with precision. But it takes time to zoom back and forth. In this case flip a switch from one to another.

My only experience with Elcan was playing around with an older C79 model. I will post a complete report when I get it.

I'm aware of the bennies and neggies.

Also I discovered the reason this unit is going for that price is that it was rejected because it didn't spec out as per SOCOM color. It's more brown/tan and they spec'd them to be more 'bronze'. There is some skinny behind it so Elcan can get a few out to market. You will see others in the 1500 to 1700 range but Elcan sold them at 1360.