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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I got my Elcan a few days ago. Through a friend of mine I was able to buy one at a pretty good price as far as they go. This particular unit was considered a factory 'defects' only because it wasn't anodized as per SOCOM's specs. It's more 'brown' than 'bronze-brown', but since I don't care about whether it matches my shoes and nail polish color it was fine with me. There have been a batch released here recently and I've spotted their prices in the 1500 to 1600 range. Elcan has been letting them out of their hands to nonspecific dealers in the $1300 range. I suspect that Elcan wanted to cut loose a few to John Q since they have a military contract to fill, but that is strictly my speculation. I'm sure either way, they ain't losing any money.

My first thought upon seeing it was, "dang, it's big". And it's heavy too. Weighs in at 1.3 lbs. It does look like it will take abuse but it appears to have a lot more attached to it compared to other combat optics.

First off, it does come with it's own QD mount. They are ARMS throw levers. I only have had experience with ARMS recently pointed out and noticing on my own ARMS scope mounts that they are 2 piece units, one part aluminum and the other steel held together in a dovetail groove and secured with a roll pin. Eventually these start to wobble.

At least the Specter DR isn't a 2-piece setup like that. It is for the most part a single piece mount. But all scope adjustments are external. I understand in order to accommodate the dual magnification, 1X and 4X 'prism', the reticle was etched onto the glass and adjustments are made on the outside. The dual mag range lever mechanism is also on the outside of the housing and under the scope.

My take on that, it makes it a good dirt/snow/mud trap. I don't care for that. But I already knew that before I bought it. I don't plan of trudging it through the ground. I'm sure by the time if it were to come to that the last thing I will worry about is, "how is my scope doing?".

The power switch/battery compartment is on the left side of the scope. I've read some reports how this "occludes" view when using it CQB style. My answer to that, get used to it. It isn't that bad unless your eyes are 1/4 inch appart, then you have worse things to worry about like finding a date. I poked around corners using the 1X both eyes open and it's noticeable but not an issue, and I'm not the Hunchback of ND either.

The weight. Adding 1.3 lbs to an already heavy barrel XCR makes it, well heavier. The XCR weighs as much as an M16 so work more on your puny arms or deal with it. To be honest, I've become accustomed to carrying around an M4. It's not exactly easy going 'heavier' after getting used to that. I do have to still hump Da hills, and these aren't 'friendly' hills. Jagged and loose rock, spiny cactus's, that sort of 'not friendly'. Try tooling around in that and decided which carbine would you rather hump?

There is a reason these things sell for over $1800 MSRP (I wouldn't spend that much for any scope. $1300 was the most I would).

First off, my experiences with scopes have been ACOG's, EOTechs (now issued BP) M2 and M3 AP, and few other vari-X styles. For the most part I've always been the 'iron sight' type of guy. ACOG's are a great combat scope...in daylight conditions, outdoors, with some range in between you and your target. EOTech's and Aimpoints are great combat optics for close range, 200 and under. When I think CQB I think 'indoors'. And IMO the best optics to use 'indoors' are no optics, irons all the way. Maybe it's just the way I trained all my life, but that's the way I see it. Everytime I've done a building search or have had to point my gun at someone indoors has always been with sights. Now that we use combat lights attached to weapons the thing I like to do is to shoot close range with the combat light and reference light beam as an aiming point. No pressure switch except for maybe the tail cap. Reason being I'd hate to squeeze off a shot 'accidentally' simply by what is called 'sympathetic reaction'. That is during a high stress/risk enviroment when you experience symptoms typically encountered, while you grasp with your non-gun hand such as a pressure switch on a vertical fore grip, or trying to grab a bad guy, you will have a tendency to grasp with your gun hand in a sympathetic fashion. This is not good when you have your finger in the trigger. Using sights on a lit up subject/target silhouettes the sights and are much more clear and you will maintain a better field of view specially in an enclosed environment. I feel that combat optics in a CQB environment makes the shooter's eyes focus in more on "Da Dot" than on the bad guy(s) and surroundings. Optics are great for target aquisition w/o having to line up your sights but I feel they do have limitations in enclosed areas except for maybe an airplane hanger or other large open buildings.

Combat scopes like the Acog's do one thing, combat optics like the AP and EOTechs do the other. I prefer optics on my go to gun over a scope being that if I had to use it, most likely it will be under 50 yards. I can adapt if I need to use it indoors or reference a lightbeam. The Acog is completely worthless w/o some light source available.

I know most who read this don't have to get BG holed up inside of your local trailer parks, mountain caves, brushy areas, but you do use your guns for self defense, to include inside your house, out in your back yards (for you country folk in da country side, not suburbia). Enough about that, back to the Specter.

At my first impression the Elcan does both, what a combat optic and scope, do pretty darn well. But I will continue later..... and it's all good from here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Where was I?  Oh yeah, the part where the Elcan doesn't suck.

Well when I got to look through the lens I'd admit I was pretty stoked.  It has a beautiful reticle set up with the high speed Bullet Drop Compensator all the way to 1000 meters.  Now it does say on the bottom of the reticle that up to 600 meters is for the M4 and the rest is for the M249 SAW.  Even the reticle stadia lines spread out because a SAW isn't a sniper rifle and designed for area coverage.  I'd imagine that one would try to put the tracers in 'da zone' at those range distances.  Even at 4x I'm not even trying.  For an M4 or XCR, or whatever in 5.56, up to 500 is more than plenty.

The next thing, the flip.  The magnification flip, and on off, are on the left side.  Since us right handers reign supreme it's right there to keep it on target and flip magnification.

If you are wondering why not a zoom instead of flipping back and forth.  Well I would guess just as in Bradley's, M1, other combat vehicles have the same set up.  You have it on 'wide' or 1x for that wide FOV, then upon target ID flip to 4x to get the shot then immediately back to wide and try to spot and ID unfriendlies then trying to target you and that you might not spot close up on 4x.  In a high stress situation while your bad guy moves around it's easy to loose bearing while spotting through a scope.  Zooming in and out takes valuable time so flipping in and out at a flip of a switch is something I like.  The thing with the Elcan is getting proper eye relief.  It's not an Aimpoint or EOTech so mounting it 'out there' ain't gonna work. 

Reticle illumination in this thing it where it has them beat.  You can chose 5 positions to illuminate the crosshairs or 5 positions for a red dot.  The red dot is where I'd work it similar to the AP and leave it on 1x while contrary for targets over 150.  It does have NVD settings.  I do have that but I need a weapon mount to try that out.  Now here is something most don't know, you can use NVD's in front of some scopes.  In the case of the Elcan it looks as if it was designed to work with the PVS 14 because it will mate up on front and in back.  I read some review about the Elcan and how he tried to work it with NVD having to move it forward.  I wouldn't mess with it once i got it zeroed.  Mount NVD's up front and that way if you need NVD's for anything else or once it's light out, simply pop the NVD off.  I couldn't get an Acog to work well with NVD's up front.  AP and EOtechs are designed to have NVD behind it.   

Another feature I now like about the Elcan is it's sights on top of the scope.  They do protrude out and if you don't like them they can be removes, or if one breaks they are easy to replace.  I see that pretty handy in the just in case or up close confrontation.  I wouldn't recommend removing BUIS if so installed and you can't co-witness with the Elcan like you can with the AP and EOTech and i never really understood why some think that's important.  Either you use the glass or take it off and use sights.  A busy reticle isn't so cool while you chase targets.  BUIS serve their purpose as a BUIS.  But if it's on and for whatever reason, you'll have those sights on top in a pinch.


Either way, with the AP and EOTech, one could get a set up similar to that of an Elcan and that would be far more complex, bulky, and just as spendy as the Elcan.  Forget adding NVD.  As far as battery life for the Elcan being said that it sucked, it's specs lists 300 for min, 2000 average.  Don't forget it's a 1/3 n battery.  That's pretty friken good for one 1/3 n!  The batteries are the size of an average pebble, which is surprising considering the size of the Elcan, or the same diameter as a AA and 1/5 it's length and they are available at walmart for less than $3 a piece.  I bought 3 today so I should be good for 1200 hours min. to include the one that came with it.  My PG holds 2 123A batteries and 4 1/3N's.  It's great that the Ap and EOT can handle 50K hours of use under 'nominal' conditions on a few AA batteries, but It should b/c if the battery craps out all you got is a mini windshield or a glass circle.

The Elcan is basically where all of them should have been going right after the Gulf War.  The Elcan does have some limitations but for what it offers I don't see how any other out there can beat.  I'd expect ACOG, AP, and EOTech to follow suit with an all for one package.  In each of it's modes there is a better scope for the job but for the Elcan gives it an all for one package.  It isn't for everyone.  The set MSRP is way high and I'd expect them in the mid $1300 range but that may be a while.  The scope is definitely military orientated but so were Acog's.  And for the most part there are no comparisons to an Acog, AP, or EOT.  The Acog is compact and definitely simpler.  AP and EOT are just as simple and I wouldn't compare those 2 to an Acog.  Right now it's tough to say but to me the Elcan seems less infantry-proof than the others.  Right now I'd say the Acog is the most grunt proof simply because it doesn't have an on/off switch and no moving parts.  It sure has it's limitations where it'll be on for most applications or off for certain one's while an Elcan will stay on.  And I've seen Acogs loose zeroes or get destroyed and NOT by grunts.

Bottom line I like this scope.  It will serve it's purpose very well.  This afternoon I already zeroed it and plinked around at some rocks at 200 to 300.  Zeroing is a snap.  So simple it's printed on the side of the scope

ZEROING PROCEDURE
MOVE TO 4X
DISENGAGE EL LOCK
ZERO EL AND WINDAGE
LOCK EL

That's what I did and now it's zeroed.  

Last issue is maintaining zero.  Now i know I discussed w/Bravo about the ARMS scope mounts and how the get loose.  They were advertised as "guarantee to retain zero".  I laugh even though i bought them back in 2001 sometime.  Nothing in scopes guarantee that it will hold a zero even though you never take the scope off.  Temperature, shock, altitude, and other's will definitely make you loose zero over time no matter what you do.  And this is aside from ballistics.  Only thoroughly trained snipers constantly verify zero and only under extreme situation will remove scopes and I wouldn't even recommend a quick detachable mounts for them  Take for instance yesterday at my quarterly quals.  there was an SRT (BP version of SWAT) with his Hk UMP and mounted Aimpoint on a LaRue that was zeroed the quals before (less than 3 months ago).  I took out a pool UMP, didn't zero it and put all shots in the 5 ring at 50 yards.  He had to zero it.  The thing shot about a foot over the target.  About 40 rounds later he was zeroed.  I don't think I was a better shot in fact we both got the same score, 247/250.  But seeing how he had to re-zero after less than 3 months, with a UMP assigned only to him and not passed and beat on like a pool weapon, and you can tell the difference just by looking at the conditions of the weapons how much beat up pool guns are.  Well it's food for though.  If you folks buy scopes and mounts, specially the detachable types, and expect them to be right on the money every day of the year, it won't happen.  The only way to guarantee zero is to verify and adjust.  I notice a zero shift every qual on my issued M4 with a TA31.  I adjust it when it gets bad to the point that I believe it needs it, usually at least once every 6 to 9 months.

So there's my take.

This post is solely my opinion and it does not represent XCR Forum, it's members, and it is for entertainment and educational purposes only.  All characters are fictional and do not represent an actual person living or deceased.  No animals were harmed in the making of this post.  All trademark and registration are property of Glock Monkey/i303 Inc. LLC productions and it's subsidiaries.  Any reproduction of this post is in violation of 69 USC-O-U-812 punishable up to 30 days with bubba with vaseline and a fine of $100,000 payable to me, or death.  Have a nice day.  Bye.


I'll post pics later.
 

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Where was I? Oh yeah, the part where the Elcan doesn't suck.

Well when I got to look through the lens I'd admit I was pretty stoked. It has a beautiful reticle set up with the high speed Bullet Drop Compensator all the way to 1000 meters. Now it does say on the bottom of the reticle that up to 600 meters is for the M4 and the rest is for the M249 SAW. Even the reticle stadia lines spread out because a SAW isn't a sniper rifle and designed for area coverage. I'd imagine that one would try to put the tracers in 'da zone' at those range distances. Even at 4x I'm not even trying. For an M4 or XCR, or whatever in 5.56, up to 500 is more than plenty.

The next thing, the flip. The magnification flip, and on off, are on the left side. Since us right handers reign supreme it's right there to keep it on target and flip magnification.

If you are wondering why not a zoom instead of flipping back and forth. Well I would guess just as in Bradley's, M1, other combat vehicles have the same set up. You have it on 'wide' or 1x for that wide FOV, then upon target ID flip to 4x to get the shot then immediately back to wide and try to spot and ID unfriendlies then trying to target you and that you might not spot close up on 4x. In a high stress situation while your bad guy moves around it's easy to loose bearing while spotting through a scope. Zooming in and out takes valuable time so flipping in and out at a flip of a switch is something I like. The thing with the Elcan is getting proper eye relief. It's not an Aimpoint or EOTech so mounting it 'out there' ain't gonna work.

Reticle illumination in this thing it where it has them beat. You can chose 5 positions to illuminate the crosshairs or 5 positions for a red dot. The red dot is where I'd work it similar to the AP and leave it on 1x while contrary for targets over 150. It does have NVD settings. I do have that but I need a weapon mount to try that out. Now here is something most don't know, you can use NVD's in front of some scopes. In the case of the Elcan it looks as if it was designed to work with the PVS 14 because it will mate up on front and in back. I read some review about the Elcan and how he tried to work it with NVD having to move it forward. I wouldn't mess with it once i got it zeroed. Mount NVD's up front and that way if you need NVD's for anything else or once it's light out, simply pop the NVD off. I couldn't get an Acog to work well with NVD's up front. AP and EOtechs are designed to have NVD behind it.

Another feature I now like about the Elcan is it's sights on top of the scope. They do protrude out and if you don't like them they can be removes, or if one breaks they are easy to replace. I see that pretty handy in the just in case or up close confrontation. I wouldn't recommend removing BUIS if so installed and you can't co-witness with the Elcan like you can with the AP and EOTech and i never really understood why some think that's important. Either you use the glass or take it off and use sights. A busy reticle isn't so cool while you chase targets. BUIS serve their purpose as a BUIS. But if it's on and for whatever reason, you'll have those sights on top in a pinch.


Either way, with the AP and EOTech, one could get a set up similar to that of an Elcan and that would be far more complex, bulky, and just as spendy as the Elcan. Forget adding NVD. As far as battery life for the Elcan being said that it sucked, it's specs lists 300 for min, 2000 average. Don't forget it's a 1/3 n battery. That's pretty friken good for one 1/3 n! The batteries are the size of an average pebble, which is surprising considering the size of the Elcan, or the same diameter as a AA and 1/5 it's length and they are available at walmart for less than a piece. I bought 3 today so I should be good for 1200 hours min. to include the one that came with it. My PG holds 2 123A batteries and 4 1/3N's. It's great that the Ap and EOT can handle 50K hours of use under 'nominal' conditions on a few AA batteries, but It should b/c if the battery craps out all you got is a mini windshield or a glass circle.

The Elcan is basically where all of them should have been going right after the Gulf War. The Elcan does have some limitations but for what it offers I don't see how any other out there can beat. I'd expect ACOG, AP, and EOTech to follow suit with an all for one package. In each of it's modes there is a better scope for the job but for the Elcan gives it an all for one package. It isn't for everyone. The set MSRP is way high and I'd expect them in the mid 00 range but that may be a while. The scope is definitely military orientated but so were Acog's. And for the most part there are no comparisons to an Acog, AP, or EOT. The Acog is compact and definitely simpler. AP and EOT are just as simple and I wouldn't compare those 2 to an Acog. Right now it's tough to say but to me the Elcan seems less infantry-proof than the others. Right now I'd say the Acog is the most grunt proof simply because it doesn't have an on/off switch and no moving parts. It sure has it's limitations where it'll be on for most applications or off for certain one's while an Elcan will stay on. And I've seen Acogs loose zeroes or get destroyed and NOT by grunts.

Bottom line I like this scope. It will serve it's purpose very well. This afternoon I already zeroed it and plinked around at some rocks at 200 to 300. Zeroing is a snap. So simple it's printed on the side of the scope

ZEROING PROCEDURE
MOVE TO 4X
DISENGAGE EL LOCK
ZERO EL AND WINDAGE
LOCK EL

That's what I did and now it's zeroed.

Last issue is maintaining zero. Now i know I discussed w/Bravo about the ARMS scope mounts and how the get loose. They were advertised as "guarantee to retain zero". I laugh even though i bought them back in 2001 sometime. Nothing in scopes guarantee that it will hold a zero even though you never take the scope off. Temperature, shock, altitude, and other's will definitely make you loose zero over time no matter what you do. And this is aside from ballistics. Only thoroughly trained snipers constantly verify zero and only under extreme situation will remove scopes and I wouldn't even recommend a quick detachable mounts for them Take for instance yesterday at my quarterly quals. there was an SRT (BP version of SWAT) with his Hk UMP and mounted Aimpoint on a LaRue that was zeroed the quals before (less than 3 months ago). I took out a pool UMP, didn't zero it and put all shots in the 5 ring at 50 yards. He had to zero it. The thing shot about a foot over the target. About 40 rounds later he was zeroed. I don't think I was a better shot in fact we both got the same score, 247/250. But seeing how he had to re-zero after less than 3 months, with a UMP assigned only to him and not passed and beat on like a pool weapon, and you can tell the difference just by looking at the conditions of the weapons how much beat up pool guns are. Well it's food for though. If you folks buy scopes and mounts, specially the detachable types, and expect them to be right on the money every day of the year, it won't happen. The only way to guarantee zero is to verify and adjust. I notice a zero shift every qual on my issued M4 with a TA31. I adjust it when it gets bad to the point that I believe it needs it, usually at least once every 6 to 9 months.

So there's my take.

This post is solely my opinion and it does not represent XCR Forum, it's members, and it is for entertainment and educational purposes only. All characters are fictional and do not represent an actual person living or deceased. No animals were harmed in the making of this post. All trademark and registration are property of Glock Monkey/i303 Inc. LLC productions and it's subsidiaries. Any reproduction of this post is in violation of 69 USC-O-U-812 punishable up to 30 days with bubba with vaseline and a fine of 0,000 payable to me, or death. Have a nice day. Bye.


I'll post pics later.

;D So, sue me! :rofl:
 

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I can't friggin read all that... I gather you like what you bought.

Holy shit you should work for a Gun Rag writing reviews. :D
 

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Wow, that was a thorough write up. Sounds like it will do well for you. I will be interested to hear how it holds up over time...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
GOOD REVIUE, YOU NEED TO WORK FOR GUN'S & AMMO.
No I don't. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

LOL

I stayed up late and was bored. Yeah, my post are long, hopefully not boring. Besides those Elcans have been out for about 2 years and few have landed on da people's hands. So I felt obliged to tell it like it is.

Should I work for a gun rag? I actually can't stand them. Bear in mind I just got it and time will tell. I do like it. At that price it better be good. I also like Acog's for what they offer, and Aimpoint, EOTech, Leupold, IOR Valdada, just about any scope that is expensive. You will get what you pay for. I also throw in what has been my experience. The Elcan is a new concept in combat scope that I couldn't resist to give it a try for myself. I'm an Infantryman at heart, to the day I die. So it's just natural that I would really want to try this out.

I think today's gun rag writers are sell out and would quite often mention little to nothing about negative aspects of a product they review. They usually only have journalism as their base experience so it's hard for them to imagine ending up in a goat shit and piss filled pond in Somalia (that's another story), or having experienced handling weapons covered with ice, or having being pelted with sand in a fierce storm and rotor wash (right aziator), or being rained/hail pound on top of you, weapons in hand. So I look at things with my grunt eyes. If I feel that my life can depend of it I will say so. If it's shit I will also say so...after ebay. And it's not their money that they spend on those products. I hope ya'll noticed that just because I got the Elcan on my coinage I don't go about the typical internet commando style and go on to say "It's the best scope EEVVARRRR!"

But you never know. I'm 42 right now and can never tell what I'll be doing the day after I turn 57 and retire, if I/we make it to that time. I am hoping to do something in the Evil Black Rifle industry. I know I have the experience and training to do a lot. Can't necessarily say I'd be one to sell stuff. Maybe training, like joining the old fart crew at Gunsite just as 2 of my old supervisors did. I tried the 'sell stuff on the side' once already and it's hard to have a day (or night) job and do that at the same time. Unfortunately my new position I can no longer do Firearms Instructor duty. So whatever I do now other than quarterly quals is on my own time and dime.

I'm still too much of a do'er more so than a critic. I just get to try it out here on da forums.

Re G&A:
Bill Jordan was a former Border Patrolman and he wrote for G&A 'Down of the Border'. He is/was one of this country, if not the world, top pistol shooter. I'm way far from that notoriety. In fact, he pushed hard for DA revolvers as LE guns that to this date the BP only select DA pistols. Little known and tragic fact about Bill Jordan was that he accidentally KILLED a fellow BP Agent as he was cleaning a gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Update

Here is a reticle pic that I promised.  It is at 4X and you'll notice my steel target at 200 m just left of the red dot which is on.  The pic does it no justice.  It does have an awsome clear lense with a very clear reticle.



Since I initially zeroed it, I did pull it off to readjust eye relief.  I check the zero at 25M and it stayed on.  In order to zero it to hit at 200 on the nose the groups have to be 2" below POA.  At 200 meters I was making head shots no problems.

Elcan Specter DR mounter on XCR-L



 

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Nice pics. ;D

Great scope. The color is interesting.

I want.... for the XCR M went it comes out.
 

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I just recieved my specterDR as well today. Pretty impressed so impressed I ordered a 7.62 calibrated one for my XCR-M when it comes out. My DR is black not gold like one in this thread. I am waiting on my XCR-L though should be here within 2 weeks. I pray it doesn't lag at the border like every gun that comes into canada does.
 
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