[themousethatroared]

Both forged and cast can be, and most often are, machined (cnc or otherwise) as part of finishing off the product. Both leave pretty nasty looking surfaces. It is normal to cut at least the mating surfaces back into the better material in the interior, so that these surfaces are smooth, clean, and true.

Cast or forged does not result in a finished part that is ready for assembly.
Most of the benefit of casting is in reducing wasted material and the labor involved in cutting that material away. Casting provides a piece that is much closer to being finished, but it still has to be finished so that it can be used.
Forging provides a similar jump to a piece that is already roughed out and closer to finished, but the process yields a piece that is structurally stronger.

 

[TTEngineer]

I do like all these AR-180-esque guns that are coming out now.

Its pretty cool to see a lot of folks coming back around to piston guns.


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[Sean K.]

Both forged and cast can be, and most often are, machined (cnc or otherwise) as part of finishing off the product. Both leave pretty nasty looking surfaces. It is normal to cut at least the mating surfaces back into the better material in the interior, so that these surfaces are smooth, clean, and true.

Cast or forged does not result in a finished part that is ready for assembly.
Most of the benefit of casting is in reducing wasted material and the labor involved in cutting that material away. Casting provides a piece that is much closer to being finished, but it still has to be finished so that it can be used.
Forging provides a similar jump to a piece that is already roughed out and closer to finished, but the process yields a piece that is structurally stronger.

Yes, obviously both are often machined for the reasons you mentioned. Never implied they weren't. An extrusion is similar and can have a better final finish (depending largely on material and the newness of the dies)....but still may need final machining depending on what's being made.

 

[Decoy26517]

TFBTV did an overview of the Crusader Templar.

Interesting points:

1. upper/lower not compatible with standard AR uppers/lowers.

2. AR triggers and other small parts ARE compatible.

3. mid length gas.

4. 6061 billet aluminum.



Personally, for $1,800, I'd rather save up a little and get a CZ Bren instead. This would be nice as a collectors item though.

 

[Flskunkape]

Personally, for $1,800, I'd rather save up a little and get a CZ Bren instead. This would be nice as a collectors item though.
[/QUOTE]

I've been tempted to get one to have a sample of a future episodes forgotten weapons.

 

[themousethatroared]

TFBTV did an overview of the Crusader Templar.

Interesting points:

1. upper/lower not compatible with standard AR uppers/lowers.

2. AR triggers and other small parts ARE compatible.

3. mid length gas.

4. 6061 billet aluminum.



Personally, for $1,800, I'd rather save up a little and get a CZ Bren instead. This would be nice as a collectors item though.

The "Clever Legal Workaround" mentioned in the video description, explains a lot about their law.

"We moved the front and rear pins about a millimeter and made it non-interchangeable with any AR upper or lower, and that makes it legal."

The XCR is not interchangeable, but existed at the time the law was written, and they named everything that was not AR that existed at the time the law was written.

So, their game is to change the dimensions slightly, then wait for the next round of laws and new names to be added to the list.

The group of new Canadian products looks to be squarely in the middle, between the ARs and the SCAR/ACR/XCR/etc. group. If it weren't for the legality situation, they might not be viable at the price point they are at. I'm not saying they are overpriced. The labor cost may justify every penny. But if those others were available, the "For a couple hundred dollars more, I could get a fill_in_the_blank" argument would really cut the market down.

 

[Sean K.]

The "Clever Legal Workaround" mentioned in the video description, explains a lot about their law.

"We moved the front and rear pins about a millimeter and made it non-interchangeable with any AR upper or lower, and that makes it legal."

The XCR is not interchangeable, but existed at the time the law was written, and they named everything that was not AR that existed at the time the law was written.

So, their game is to change the dimensions slightly, then wait for the next round of laws and new names to be added to the list.

The group of new Canadian products looks to be squarely in the middle, between the ARs and the SCAR/ACR/XCR/etc. group. If it weren't for the legality situation, they might not be viable at the price point they are at. I'm not saying they are overpriced. The labor cost may justify every penny. But if those others were available, the "For a couple hundred dollars more, I could get a fill_in_the_blank" argument would really cut the market down.

Thanks for the explanation.....

If that's the case, I really question the intelligence of the legislators of Canada. It'd be far simpler to ban features and semi-autos as categories rather than listing by name.

 

[themousethatroared]

Thanks for the explanation.....

If that's the case, I really question the intelligence of the legislators of Canada. It'd be far simpler to ban features and semi-autos as categories rather than listing by name.

It sounds like their law has the dimensional drawings for the standard AR-15 upper and lower, banning everything that fits those dimensions, and then the names of everything else.
They talk in the video about it being an evolution of the AR-180, they are not sure if parts are interchangeable, but that the law does not address the AR-180 (at least by dimensions).

This is that thing with people who don't know anything about a subject, writing laws and rules about that subject. They think the rest of the world is going to follow the spirit of their oppression, not look for the freedom in what they omit. And anyone involved in competition that involves equipment or machinery along with a human operator (like auto racing), looks at a rule set differently. It's what the rules say specifically, and anything the rules do not say specifically, is allowed.

Edit/Additional:
Here's a story from 2019 discussing this, so it's been in the works for a while:

The AR-180 is poised to make a comeback

Chambered for .223 Remington with an 18.7 inch barrel, the WK180-C handles like a dream on the range with minimal effort.

www.militarytimes.com

 

[Sean K.]

It sounds like their law has the dimensional drawings for the standard AR-15 upper and lower, banning everything that fits those dimensions, and then the names of everything else.
They talk in the video about it being an evolution of the AR-180, they are not sure if parts are interchangeable, but that the law does not address the AR-180 (at least by dimensions).

This is that thing with people who don't know anything about a subject, writing laws and rules about that subject. They think the rest of the world is going to follow the spirit of their oppression, not look for the freedom in what they omit. And anyone involved in competition that involves equipment or machinery along with a human operator (like auto racing), looks at a rule set differently. It's what the rules say specifically, and anything the rules do not say specifically, is allowed.

Edit/Additional:
Here's a story from 2019 discussing this, so it's been in the works for a while:

The AR-180 is poised to make a comeback

Chambered for .223 Remington with an 18.7 inch barrel, the WK180-C handles like a dream on the range with minimal effort.

www.militarytimes.com

Agreed. "Legal" defiance has always been about exploiting loop holes within existing law.

 

[Candiacan]

One more XCR competitor coming up, the MAKASI rifle:

[SHOT 2023] Brigade Manufacturing Makasi FAL/AR Hybrid Rifle -

The Brigade Manufacturing Makasi rifle blends the FAL and AR-15 to create a modernized short-stroke carbine with familiar controls.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[Chowwow]

One more XCR competitor coming up, the MAKASI rifle:

Fucking gross! Like, not elegant at all. I'd only pick this thing up if I was desperate for a weapon.

 

[Flskunkape]

Lol I kinda like it lol yall seen the ptr 63 or the iwi usa Carmel? Both will be some competition I belive, also $1800 seems to be the generally acceptable price for these new piston guns.

 

[TTEngineer]

Fucking gross! Like, not elegant at all. I'd only pick this thing up if I was desperate for a weapon.

That’s kind of how I feel about the PSA Jakl. If they just spruced up the lower a little and added an Ambi bolt release it would look 1000% better.

Their upcoming AK lower for the Jakl is a different story though. It’s sweet.


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[Flskunkape]

That’s kind of how I feel about the PSA Jakl. If they just spruced up the lower a little and added an Ambi bolt release it would look 1000% better.

Their upcoming AK lower for the Jakl is a different story though. It’s sweet.


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I had forgotten about the "heckel", original prototype great, what they released dog shit. I didn't know they were doing an ak lower.. that may re-peak my interest.
Also PSAs bringing out the H&M stg44, is gonna be 762x39 stanag mag.. also in 8mm Kurt's, 556, and blackout. I'm still in debates on what caliber/s I'm wanting it in.

 

[TTEngineer]

I had forgotten about the "heckel", original prototype great, what they released dog shit. I didn't know they were doing an ak lower.. that may re-peak my interest.
Also PSAs bringing out the H&M stg44, is gonna be 762x39 stanag mag.. also in 8mm Kurt's, 556, and blackout. I'm still in debates on what caliber/s I'm wanting it in.

See this video for a peak of the AK version

https://youtu.be/IzQHzCEiyGQ


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[Sean K.]

I had forgotten about the "heckel", original prototype great, what they released dog shit. I didn't know they were doing an ak lower.. that may re-peak my interest.
Also PSAs bringing out the H&M stg44, is gonna be 762x39 stanag mag.. also in 8mm Kurt's, 556, and blackout. I'm still in debates on what caliber/s I'm wanting it in.

Been waiting on that x39 mag from H&M for years....I have my doubts about their ability to deliver.

 

[Hammerman]

The new FN rifle designed for the US government sure looks close to an XCR. There's an article about it on TFB.

 

[Sean K.]

Hmmm....says they are 6061 uppers/lowers; not 7075.

Crusader Arms Templar Monolithic 556 Rifle

Lifetime, transferable warranty Aluminum Upper and Lower made from billet 6061 aluminum Barrel is made of 4150 Steel, Chrome Moly Vanadium with nitride finish Last round hold-open Quick release bolt stop. (Note how easy it is to access, just push forward). F5 MFG Side folding stock ( folds away...

shop.tacticalshit.com

Odd material choice considering what the USG learned about 6061 in Vietnam.

 

[willpgn]

 

[Chowwow]

I've seen the Perun being featured on Youtube. That upper just looks funky in what looks like they had an extension over the upper of an AR-15 so they could fit a recoil piston and charging handle, making the handguard/barrel shroud look small. Just not my thing.