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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was cleaning my rifle today and studying the trigger mechanism. Am I wrong in suggesting the disconnect is the only thing preventing the rifle from firing fully automatic when the trigger is squeezed? It seems that if that part were to break or be filed off by an unscrupulous type of person, that the hammer would fall as soon as the bolt was back in battery. Correct?

There has to be more to it than that, and I'm sure there is some serious drawback to modifying the gun to work this way. I mean, other than the go-directly-to-jail-without-passing-Go part.
 

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you would pretty much have to destroy the disconnect and the sear surfaces on the hammer. It's not easy, and the rifle would not function for long like that. It's not meant to.

The full auto we have at RA has many different parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Look at that! Right from the source. Thanks, Terra!

Is it possible for a civilian to get a full-auto XCR (like the NFA SBR or suppressor), or is that LE/military only? If so, do those trigger parts drop into a semi-auto lower?
 

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they're not in production right now. We only have the one that is the company's, and I think maybe one other as a demo out there somewhere. The upper internals are different - though I think the bolt might be the same. The trigger parts do fit in the regular lower, yes.

I believe they were, at some point, planning on doing an LE/MIL release of them. I don't know about civilian though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is this that rifle?
 

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that is the old version. Everything was redone for longevity purposes. New trigger parts, new recoil system. All different now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ah, okay. Thanks again!
 

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Look at that! Right from the source. Thanks, Terra!

Is it possible for a civilian to get a full-auto XCR (like the NFA SBR or suppressor), or is that LE/military only? If so, do those trigger parts drop into a semi-auto lower?
Full Auto is another beast, much different that cans and SBR. Unless you are a dealer you can't purchase a post ban gun (anything made after 1986). That goes for any machine gun, hence the extremely high prices of machine guns these days, less supply and more demand.
 

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I was cleaning my rifle today and studying the trigger mechanism. Am I wrong in suggesting the disconnect is the only thing preventing the rifle from firing fully automatic when the trigger is squeezed? It seems that if that part were to break or be filed off by an unscrupulous type of person, that the hammer would fall as soon as the bolt was back in battery. Correct?

There has to be more to it than that, and I'm sure there is some serious drawback to modifying the gun to work this way. I mean, other than the go-directly-to-jail-without-passing-Go part.
FA guns should have some sort of delay allowing the bolt time to get into battery BEFORE the hammer is released. Remove the disconnect and the hammer would follow the bolt forward. Likely leading to light and/or early strikes.

watch this slow-mo auto AK firing, notice how the hammer is delayed until the bolt carrier is fully forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Actually, I saw that very video yesterday and it planted the seed of inquiry in my head. Thanks, though.
 

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If you filed the sear and disconnect the trigger would become useless. There would be no way to start firing. Even if you could, there would then be no way to stop it. It would be an uncontrolled mag dump.
 

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Full auto conversions are readily available for ARs and AKs, but they're sold as repair parts for legal guns. We can't have repair parts for full auto XCRs until there are full auto XCRs to repair. Bummer.
 

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Not totally true.

On an AR you can get a select fire hammer, disconnect and selector but NOT the sear. The issue then is timing the rifle for reliability so you don't get a round going off before the bolt has closed.

I can't speak for the XCR but on an AR the Auto sear engages the hook on the back of the hammer and keeps the hammed back until the carrier has moved forward enough to guarantee the bolt will close prior to the hammer strike. This is what prevents a KA-BOOM, or round being discharged prior to the chamber being locked.

Also making a rifle FA is big time bad news as the BATF has no sense of humor for that at all, iunless you do it legally, i.e. registered sear, which you can't do on an XCR.

If you wanted to make an XCR FA, all you need to do is remove the disconnector but you would be FA only, and are likely to screw things up badly so like Terra would say, DON'T DO IT!

If you want select fire, either mortgage you house and sell your girlfriend to buy a registered rifle/sear or go become a class III dealer and buy some demonstrator weapons.
 
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they're not in production right now. We only have the one that is the company's, and I think maybe one other as a demo out there somewhere. The upper internals are different - though I think the bolt might be the same. The trigger parts do fit in the regular lower, yes.

I believe they were, at some point, planning on doing an LE/MIL release of them. I don't know about civilian though.

That's actually ingenious design there (once again!!)

If what you are saying is totally accurate the exact same receiver could be used for both guns without modification. The semi auto sear would have a trip nub on it that was released when the bolt went into battery completely. Thus only two parts would need to be different, the semi auto sear and the bolt carrier.

do I about have it right? ??? :)

Is there any chance you could post some pictures of the full auto parts for the Student's among us? I just love seeing the different designs and the ways that designers overcame certain issues.

I see some many similarities with the Kalashnikov design in this gun, but in some ways Alex has made it even simpler and more elegant without losing the robustness.

p.s. what's the RPM of the full auto gun? I sounds like about 650 or so.
 

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I've seen the full auto trigger pack. Its damn different compared to the semi automatic model. Converting is pretty much impossible. You will need to destroy the parts on some level to make it happen.
 

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I was cleaning my rifle today and studying the trigger mechanism. Am I wrong in suggesting the disconnect is the only thing preventing the rifle from firing fully automatic when the trigger is squeezed? It seems that if that part were to break or be filed off by an unscrupulous type of person, that the hammer would fall as soon as the bolt was back in battery. Correct?

There has to be more to it than that, and I'm sure there is some serious drawback to modifying the gun to work this way. I mean, other than the go-directly-to-jail-without-passing-Go part.
Take it from me (i really f'd mine up with a Dremel), DO NOT MODIFY YOUR TRIGGER ASSEMBLY unless you absolutely know what you are doing. You will do serious damage and could actually cause out of chamber misfires. Very dangerous.

I highly recommend sending your trigger assy to Bill Springfield. He can get your trigger pull down to 4.5 lbs.

If Bill was given a blank canvas to work from, I wonder what he would come up with for a FA trigger group?... hmmm
 

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Given what Bill Springfield can do with the stock POS we call an XCR trigger, I'm hoping that Bill can take the new Match trigger and turn it into something special. Given the ammount of time Alex has been working on the new trigger, that may not be required but it would still be fun to see what Bill can do.
 

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I will post pics of my select fire XCR internals as soon as the lower is milled so you can see both. Unless it is classified......Tarra, Allison?
 

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MickyC: I have felt the "pre-production" match trigger and there isn't much Bill will need to do or can do to it. I would say if the production triggers are anything like this one, it is perfect. Smooth as glass, short reset, short take-up and breaks at about 3 lbs.

JMHO,
MadDog :2cents:
 

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I will post pics of my select fire XCR internals as soon as the lower is milled so you can see both. Unless it is classified......Tarra, Allison?


This might be something that Robarms really doesn't want floating around the interweb. Enough guys have messed up their triggers already. I can't imagine how many dremel tools would fly off the shelves. :duh:
 
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