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Learned how to bump fire one of my AKs from the shoulder.....so I tried it on the VZ. No luck though....trigger is just too long in terms of travel and reset. Surprised how level one can keep an AK when firing almost full auto (with a brake). Transferred my new found "skill" over to my XCRs (brought the pistol and SBR).....and found it was pretty close to as fast as the AK, minus the slightly higher muzzle flip. Probably more "usable" out of the XCR since the thing just stays flat. Crazy fun....stupid expensive. :)

VZ runs 100% on Wolf (provided it's "mil-spec" and made by Barnaul). Will likely leave it alone for now.
The video I remember, is I _think_ an old Vietnam era SF guy bumpfiring a beltfed Stoner with just trigger control. His accuracy and control is impressive. The rate of fire is almost indistinguishable from F/A. After watching, I tried it a few times, it's not that difficult (surprisingly).....doing it under pressure could be tricky but as far as a tool in the bag, its a good one to have.

If I ever find it I'll post it up, but for now, this video demonstrates the technique nearly as well, his ROF is nothing like the Vietnam vet, but it's definitely an example of a viable technique.

 
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Eye is still not improving.....see the Dr. again early January.

Stryk B had some sort of legal trouble....official announcement Monday (tomorrow)....guessing it's that there's already an "Arsenal" firearms doing AKs, but I don't know yet.

Got my Gen 5 G19 this last week....was supposed to go shoot it today, but it's raining. :(

Archon Firearms Type B: "World's Lowest Bore Axis Pistol"? - The Truth About Guns

Apparently, trademark dispute forced a name change... consequently restarting procedures with the ATF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Didn't update this....bought an HB Industries trigger shoe for the P10C. It's even better than before. It is honestly probably the second best trigger I have in terms of the feel....though I don't shoot it as well as ones I like the feel of less (oddly enough). It has a definite wall....something that doesn't lend itself to fast shooting FOR ME like the rolling break you get with a Ghost Pro 3.3 connector in a Glock.

Also, I didn't have to send the P10c in for warranty....they sent me a back cover plate even though I never had a malf (still haven't in thousands of rounds). The rotating striker supposedly doesn't matter.....and the "new" models made in the USA still have that design. That one instance cited on the interwebz seems to be a fluke. I do think that's a design flaw that should be addressed, but apparently CZ doesn't agree and since they only give a 5 year warranty...I guess they don't care.

Oh, and I bought another one. They're on sale right now at Prepper Gun Shop for $365 plus shipping with night sights in FDE. For that kind of money, this thing is a great gun. I also bought a Suarez trigger for it to compare to the HBI one. It won't replace any of my Glocks as I just shoot them better, but I do really like the gun overall, but mag prices are steep....around $33 for 17 rounders and $31ish for 15s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Installed the Suarez trigger today.

In short, the Suarez trigger is much more aesthetically pleasing than the HB Industries Theta, but in terms of function, it seems to have a tolerance stack up issue. The trigger shoe may be slightly too thick from side to side to work out of the box with the variations in the P10C's frame, or it's simply too thick and the P10 frames aren't the problem.

After install, the trigger wouldn't reset at all during dry fire. After manually working the trigger, it got better, but still occasionally hung up and didn't reset.

By contrast the HBI Theta has a couple thousandths of movement on the sides of the trigger and works as it should. I have a feeling I could file/sand the plastic frame for the trigger hole and get this to work, but I don't think I should have to. I'm going to take it shooting tomorrow and see if some rounds down range will help accelerate a break in of sorts. If it doesn't improve, I'll contact Suarez...who will tell me that if it wasn't installed by a professional gunsmith, then that's the problem (Gabe's been on a real **** rant about how if you're not a "gunsmith" you can't install parts on a firearm)....at least that's what I'm expecting. I'll report back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 · (Edited)
The Suarez trigger is usable now....I think over time it will break in. For whatever reason, even with the factory or HBI trigger (or the Suarez) I can't run the P10C as fast as my Glocks. No idea why as the trigger is arguably as good if not better than modded Glocks. The sight picture is harder to use as the rear notch is narrower.

The real surprise for me today was the Archon Type B. After two weeks of randomly dry firing it, I honestly thought the reset would be too long and I just wasn't that enamored with it. I did notice it has a strong return spring for the reset stroke and it rebounds really quickly...faster than any other gun I can think of. I thought that might make up for the disappointing reset distance, but I wasn't sure. This thing was touted as being a 2mm reset....which is more like 4.7mm or so (around 3/16).

I also wasn't sure about the controls....figured the slide release would have to be modified/cut off to work (like just about any other handgun with my really high grip) and thought the extended (compared to most guns) mag release was actually big enough that I might accidentally hit it or that it would rub my hand raw since it's so aggressively textured. I also was concerned that the dip in the slide out towards the muzzle might hit my support hand thumb and be an issue for cycling or just hitting that thumb hard enough to cause a grip issue.

I was very surprised that this thing ran out of the box with my built Glocks. In spite of the longer reset, I ran it faster than my Glock on a few strings and about the same as the Glocks on others. I only put about 225 rounds through it. I think I ran about 280 through the P10C. None of the ergo issues were a problem.....slide locks back without having to cut the release lever. Mag release is actually just about perfect. The slide dip is a little odd, but can easily be worked with.

I did change the factory fiber optic front/blacked rear sight out for some Ameriglo straight 8 type sights (never tried the single dot rear before....I don't see any huge advantage over a traditional 3 dot tritium set up, but it's fine).

Overall, I'd have to say this is the first handgun I've bought that I'd say is actually competitive with my built Glocks (for me) and that's saying a lot considering how many I've bought in an attempt to find something better.

The lower bore axis is extremely controllable....it runs flatter than my compensated Glocks. It ran 115 grain Blazer Brass with no issues (all non-compensated 9mms seem to...my C model Glocks will occasionally choke on 115 gr.) Not sure how complex the design is...I haven't torn it all the way down, but I suspect it won't be as competitive there as Glock since that's really its biggest forte.

Mags are okay...don't love the baseplate design (Or the cost of the mags), but I didn't pinch my hand doing reloads....but I also was conscious of the potential issue.

I dunno...it's good enough I'm seriously considering another....and definitely more mags. I've only got 4 and they are 15 rounders. I'd love a 17+ capacity. There are mag extensions of +3 currently, but they're like $39 or so a piece in a machined aluminum.

It is bulky in terms of slide width and it's not as comfortable to me as a Glock (though plenty of people would argue that anyway), but overall, I'm impressed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
If it doesn't improve, I'll contact Suarez...who will tell me that if it wasn't installed by a professional gunsmith, then that's the problem (Gabe's been on a real **** rant about how if you're not a "gunsmith" you can't install parts on a firearm)....at least that's what I'm expecting. I'll report back.
Well, called that one, LOL. :)

My initial email, their response:


Hi,

Installed the P10C "face shooter" trigger 12/23/18.

I should preface by saying I have the HB Industries Theta trigger (shoe only, didn't want to install the lighter springs) in another P10C.

In short, your trigger is much more aesthetically pleasing, but in terms of function, I think you may have a tolerance stack up issue. Your trigger shoe may be slightly too thick from side to side to work out of the box with the variations in the P10C's frame. Of course, it's also possible my frame is out of spec or at the smaller end of the tolerance.

After install, your trigger wouldn't reset at all during dry fire. After manually working the trigger, it got better, but still occasionally hung up and didn't reset. It took literally thousands of dry fires to get it to reset with what I now believe is 100% reliably. I put 280 rounds through it yesterday and it seems to have broken in, but it is noticeably heavier in pull (due to the resistance with the frame) and slower to reset (which affected my splits) than my HB Industries equipped P10C.

Have you had any similar reports of fitment issues? Obviously, I could disassemble both pistols and start mic'ing parts, but figured I'd ask you first.

Thanks for your time,
Sean King
QC, AZ

Their Repsonse:

Sean,



Haven't had any reports of issues with them so far. Did the gunsmith that did the install have any issues while installing it?


Thanks,
Randy (Customer Service)
Suarez International USA, Inc
 
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omg...this dudes low level kung fu is so weak.....and for some reason, not surprising given the outfit he's representing.

This may tell you pretty much everything you need to know.
 

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omg...this dudes low level kung fu is so weak.....and for some reason, not surprising given the outfit he's representing.

This may tell you pretty much everything you need to know.
They all drink the kool-aid from the same jug. Automotive lighting Automotive tire Eyewear Art Font
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 · (Edited)
So I'm sure it's a one off problem, not indicative of CZ quality, but my newish CZ 75 SP01 Phantom shit the bed today while out shooting with the gang from work. Literally puked its guts up at some point during the first mag.

I was running the gun pretty fast on 2 or 3 steel torso targets, shooting while moving, and when I got to around the 15th round, I got a click...thought briefly I was already out of ammo and the slide didn't lock back but did a double action pull anyway before checking the chamber since I felt like I hadn't gone through 18 rounds yet. Nothing...so I racked the chamber. Live round ejects....sling shot the slide, load next round....nada. Swap mags. Still nothing. Pick up spent rounds...no primer strikes. Look at firing pin through ejection port....nothing there.

Finally take down gun....notice there's no firing pin at all....and now there's no plunger for the hammer either or a part (that I'd call the firing pin safety on a Glock). It's like it all fell out at some point either while shooting and moving (obviously after the last successful shot) or while trying to figure out the cause of the problem. Not sure how it fell out or where the parts went....spent a few minutes looking around the desert for it before giving up. VERY odd failure. Not even sure how the parts could fall out unless when I tipped it to clear it, they just fell out. ***EDIT*** Actually, after looking at this diagram: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=23544.0 What I'm guessing happened is the roll pin(s) 57a and/or 57b backed out enough to allow the firing pin block stop and fpbs spring (58 & 59) to shoot out of the bottom of the slide as it cycled rearward, which then must've launched the firing pin and firing pin spring (part numbers 54 and 55)...but I still don't get how it wouldn't have hit me in the face as it did so.***

I'm not even sure how this could happen, where multiple parts fell out of the gun, let alone with my not even noticing it. Not sure how the parts are retained either frankly. Would have thought they are captured with a pin of some sort, but all the roll pins seem to be in place; though one looks like it's short and doesn't go fully from one side of the slide to the other. Maybe they installed too short a pin at the factory and it walked enough to allow the parts to fall out. Not sure though.

Guess I'll have to send it in for warranty. This is the first pistol I can think of that I've ever had to warranty.
 

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Weird for sure. Hopefully you won't get a reply like you did from "Suarez"..............;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Weird for sure. Hopefully you won't get a reply like you did from "Suarez"..............;)
Na, I'm betting CZ will take care of it without it being a big deal.
 
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