XCR Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alex needs to get his behind in the game by any means possible. Pull strings, call in favors, whatever...Pass or fail, it's always better to get the face time that comes with the attempt rather than be a non-starter...

http://www.military.com/news/article...e=080711DEBH01

July 11, 2008
Military.com|by Christian Lowe


In a move that could ruffle the feathers of an Army command that views the Colt Defense-built M4 as the best carbine in the world, a select group of top senate staffers is gathering today to look at what could be the future of the military's standard assault rifle.

About 30 legislative aides have signed up to attend a July 11 demonstration at Marine Corps Base Quantico, just outside Washington, D.C., that will feature weapons from various manufacturers vying to end the reign of the M16 and M4 as the U.S. military's most fielded personal weapon.

The range day is intended to help familiarize key lawmakers with possible alternatives to the M16 and M4 once the exclusive contract with Colt Defense of West Hartford, Conn., ends in the summer of 2009, a senior senate aide told Military.com.

"When you re-compete the M4 it shouldn't just be for the same thing we've been building for the last 20 to 30 years," said the senior senate staffer who requested anonymity because the issue is so sensitive with the Army.

Over the past year the Army has taken fire from M4 critics who say there are better options available to troops, weapons that require less intensive maintenance and fire more lethal rounds. While the Army -- which is responsible for procuring small arms for all the services -- continues to stand by the M4 and M16, a small group of tenacious senators, including Oklahoma Republican James Coburn, have pressed the issue, forcing the service to subject the M4 to rigorous environmental tests and pushing for side-by-side competitions with several M4 alternatives.

"There's no urgent need to improve the M4, it's clearly working better than the M16," the senior senate aide said. "Our concern is that, urgent or not, we really ought to be improving it on par with technological improvements [and] not be wedded to an older weapon just because that's the way we've always been doing it."

While the aide declined to list all the companies participating in the demo, congressional and industry sources say the shoot will feature the standard 5.56mm M4 carbine, the FNH USA-build Mk-17 -- which fires a 7.62mm round -- and a modified "M4-style" rifle that fires a new 6.8mm special purpose cartridge round, among others.

The 6.8mm SPC round was born of a 6-month program launched by the interagency Technical Support Working Group which looked into how an M4 or M16 could be easily modified to fire a round that had better ballistic characteristics than the current arsenal when fired from a short barrel.

According to the TSWG, the so-called "modified upper receiver group" that accommodates the 6.8mm round "can be installed on [government-issued] M4 carbine lower receivers by operators in the field quickly and without tools for an immediate, considerable increase in projectile weight, surface area, and on-target terminal performance."

"The 6.8mm MURG offers improved combat capability and user survivability over comparable 5.56mm platforms," a TSWG statement said.

A consistent criticism of the M4 has been the 5.56 round's perceived lack of stopping power. A 2006 Center for Naval Analyses report conducted for the Army showed 30 percent of Soldiers surveyed wanted a rifle with a more deadly round.

"Across weapons, Soldiers have requested weapons and ammunition with more stopping power/lethality," the report said.

And one special operations Soldier who spoke to Military.com couldn't agree more.

"I know that when I'm shooting at someone I want to be confident that when I hit him, he's going to go down," the Special Forces operator said during a recent interview. "That's why I like the AK and its 7.62 round. It'll drop whatever you're aiming at."

The Army brushes off such criticism, saying lethality is closely tied to marksmanship. If you hit a target in the right place, you'll stop him, Army leaders argue.

The point of the July 11 test shoot is to allow manufacturers to showcase their M4 alternatives before an audience that's becoming more influential on small arms procurement decisions. The senate group tried to hold a similar demo last year, but the Army abruptly pulled out when news reports of the event leaked out, senate sources said.

Participants will have the opportunity to observe the effects of different caliber rounds in ballistic jelly, be shown how to fire each weapon and, of course, there will be some hands-on time as well.

Colorado Democratic Sen. Ken Salazar is heavily involved in the M4 alternative push and wants a competitive process that rewards the kind of innovation that leads to a host of choices when the M4 is re-bid in June of next year.

"Senator Salazar's concern is that the process itself could stifle industry innovation, it can result in lower weapons reliability and it can increase costs," said Salazar spokesman, Matt Lee-Ashley.

"He's going to work through the Army and the Armed Services Committee to make sure that when [the M4] is re-competed next June the process is open, that it's based on performance-based requirements and that it encourages industry innovation."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,835 Posts
Yep, Alex needs to be represented there, no question. Thanks for posting this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
I found this article ,and another regarding this . I like this soldiers statement and it is being quoted elsewhere.

I know that when I'm shooting at someone I want to be confident that when I hit him, he's going to go down," the Special Forces operator said during a recent interview. "That's why I like the AK and its 7.62 round. It'll drop whatever you're aiming at."

And i have seen reference to this rifle ,so Alex may have the last laugh.



Alex isn't popular , and he isn't a kiss ass, but in reference to the RAV02 one Army Officer said.
Robinson seems to be the only one out there who listens to what a soldier wants in a Combat rifle , and they are always the Company on the forefront in building a working model of such a weapon.

I want to know ,WTF is all this plastic crap all about ? Its like they are getting more stupid all the time !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Anyone know why RA doesn't offer a semi-auto Rave02? I'd rather have it than a XCR with a 7.62x39 conversion since it uses AK mags (or at least I think I would since I've never seen one)...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
What i don't understand is at a time when the soldiers are crying out for a steel rifle , these company's go from alloy to plastic ??
Weight ?? that dosent mean anything if you are to dead to worry about your steel rifle being to heavy ,when your alloy or plastic rifle screwed up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
I'd also like to see the XCR in this competition, but I'm afraid Bushmaster is going to edge them out with their ACR. I was going to get one, until they delayed the release. I'm glad they did now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Anyone know why RA doesn't offer a semi-auto Rave02? I'd rather have it than a XCR with a 7.62x39 conversion since it uses AK mags (or at least I think I would since I've never seen one)...
Maybe Terra can chime in here, but the RAV02 and M96 are expensive to build and take lots of man hours, while XCR's can be cranked out much easier.

That seems to be one of the lessons Alex learned with experiance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,835 Posts
VB, you hit it right on the head. The M96 was labor intensive to build. Alex refuses to build a sub-quality product. The XCR is the quality he looks for along with the ease of build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Steel receivers are even faster than alloy to assemble ,if the assembly is robotic.
But you would need a lot of Machinery ,and a huge order to invest in that.
Plastic of course is the alternative ,but i cant think of where a plastic rifle has ever been really proven in combat ,can any of you guys think of one ?
I think the goal here was to lighten up the weapon so the Soldier could carry more of the high tech electronics needed today.
Ultimately it will come down to making the Soldier fit the weapon and not the reverse ,like the high tech suites you see in video games today.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top