I'm sure it's a dumb question but, hey, I'm a revolver guy. Moonclips are high tech for me. When I bought this XCR I got 10 extra 30rd mags, five alloy and five Pmags. Gotta say, it seems like a lot to me. Plus, looks like mags ought to last forever, and you can rebuild them, I think. Reading various posts, though, it sounds like some guys buy mags by the truckload and store them in small warehouses. Maybe I ought to buy some more. How many are really necessary, I wonder?
How Many Mags?
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2,839 Posts
As many as you can afford. If there is a full blown ban, mags will ballon up to $50 a pop. You want enough to last you a looong time. Mags break and wear out. If you take class they get dropped, and abused
My target is 50-75 mags before Obama is elected.
My target is 50-75 mags before Obama is elected.
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1,192 Posts
It depends on what you are doing with the rifle.
If you take it to the range, remove mags by hand (not let them fall to the ground), and keep the mags unloaded at home, than 10 mags should last you a very long time. The only thing that will really need attention will be the springs as they get compressed and released.
If you take lots of classes or like to practice more tactical rifle skills, eject mags straight to the ground, bang the feed lips doing mag changes, and like to keep your kit loaded up at home, than you may want to stock up on some more mags.
You may be somewhere in between.
Feed lips and dented tubes are the end of a magazine (like totaling a car)
Springs and followers are routine maintenance (like oil and tire changes)
Be sensible, but err on the side of caution. Magazines are likely to become more expensive.
One solution that I'm using is to acquire a logical number of high-capacity mags (i.e. 10-12 per firearm), and then start to build a collection of the low-cap mags. So the mags I'll use at the range and for IDPA can be low-cap mags. They are still cheap and will most likely continue to be. Actually, training with low-cap mags has some advantages! You have to practice reloads, and you have to make your shots count. The low-caps can take the wear and tear, and the high-cap mags can be used as needed.
It all depends on your needs.
If you take it to the range, remove mags by hand (not let them fall to the ground), and keep the mags unloaded at home, than 10 mags should last you a very long time. The only thing that will really need attention will be the springs as they get compressed and released.
If you take lots of classes or like to practice more tactical rifle skills, eject mags straight to the ground, bang the feed lips doing mag changes, and like to keep your kit loaded up at home, than you may want to stock up on some more mags.
You may be somewhere in between.
Feed lips and dented tubes are the end of a magazine (like totaling a car)
Springs and followers are routine maintenance (like oil and tire changes)
Be sensible, but err on the side of caution. Magazines are likely to become more expensive.
One solution that I'm using is to acquire a logical number of high-capacity mags (i.e. 10-12 per firearm), and then start to build a collection of the low-cap mags. So the mags I'll use at the range and for IDPA can be low-cap mags. They are still cheap and will most likely continue to be. Actually, training with low-cap mags has some advantages! You have to practice reloads, and you have to make your shots count. The low-caps can take the wear and tear, and the high-cap mags can be used as needed.
It all depends on your needs.
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5,623 Posts
It's not a bad idea to stock up on just the magazine bodies either as they can usually be purchased cheaper and the spring/follower kits should still available post ban.
You guys have about convinced me to get another 10 or so. Now is a terrible time, of course. Panic buying has about emptied the shelves. Even if Obama and company move for another ban nothing could happen before next summer, earliest, and court challenges post Heller could delay that indefinitely. I'll probably go shopping in a couple of months.
Joined
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1,475 Posts
At least ten reliable mags per rifle is a good target.
Currently I only have the xcr that takes AR mags, but I plan to have who knows how many AR's/Masada/Scar/aug clone/whatever down the road. Maybe 7 or 8 as long as I get the chance. I had 12 30r pmags, 5 NHMTG 30r and 2 NHMTG 20 rounders. I'm in for 28 30r pmags and 6 20r pmags in a group buy right now, so that should put me at a more comfortable level. Never can have too many though.
I have almost 40 mags for my ptr91, but those only cost 1-3$.
Currently I only have the xcr that takes AR mags, but I plan to have who knows how many AR's/Masada/Scar/aug clone/whatever down the road. Maybe 7 or 8 as long as I get the chance. I had 12 30r pmags, 5 NHMTG 30r and 2 NHMTG 20 rounders. I'm in for 28 30r pmags and 6 20r pmags in a group buy right now, so that should put me at a more comfortable level. Never can have too many though.
I have almost 40 mags for my ptr91, but those only cost 1-3$.
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4,533 Posts
OK, now here's the way I see it.
First off, let's look at your working load-out. I've got a "light and fast" vest and a "heavy patrolling" vest. Obviously the heavy patrolling vest carries more mags than the light and fast vest. Therefore, I'll use that vest as a basis of my load-out quantity.
For comparative numbers, the military hands everyone 7 mags (6 carried, 1 in the weapon) as a basic load. That sounds fine, but remember this - these guys move around in companies (you gonna have a company of guys around you at all times?) and those seven mags have an estimated lifespan of HALF a year (you gonna get a resupply in 6 months?). If the answer of both questions is no, then let's go to the next step.
Airborne, SFs, and such carry much more ammo. Resupply is questionable, and they move in smaller groups. Speaking about Airborne and SFs, 20 mags in a load-out is typical - one of my buddies carried a Beta-C mag in addition to those 20 mags.
Smaller numbers mean more mags - no resupply means more mags - cheaper (easily damaged - like USGI and MagPul) mags means more mags.
So first off, decide on your load-out.
That's load outs PER WEAPON. Four rifles means four load-outs. Do YOU need all those right now? Maybe not - but if someone shows up to the party without a weapon, you gonna give 'em mags too? Or what happens if you lose your full load - now no mags for other weapons!
Then I add one load-out. Why? Because I keep one load-out minimum for practice. If I screw up a practice mag, no worries in my go-to load-outs.
Since my heavy vest carries 12 mags (actually 16, but I use one of the pouches for commo gear and such) then my load-out is 13 carbine mags total. For five carbines (four XCRs and an AR) that makes 78 mags.
So I've got 75 good, steel mags (the four XCR load-outs), two load-outs of my old military magazines (20 rounders for one, 30 rounders of the second) for the AR, and a load-out of Pmags for anything I don't care about. The Pmags include the replacements from when I broke 'em.
So the total is a decent bit over 100 mags. For five carbines.
If I was buying cheesy mags - aluminum bodies or Pmags - I'd double that number, just to compensate for expected losses from damage.
Wise words: buy 'em cheap, stack 'em deep. And buy GOOD mags - not flimsy mags. 30 thou steel is DURABLE!
First off, let's look at your working load-out. I've got a "light and fast" vest and a "heavy patrolling" vest. Obviously the heavy patrolling vest carries more mags than the light and fast vest. Therefore, I'll use that vest as a basis of my load-out quantity.
For comparative numbers, the military hands everyone 7 mags (6 carried, 1 in the weapon) as a basic load. That sounds fine, but remember this - these guys move around in companies (you gonna have a company of guys around you at all times?) and those seven mags have an estimated lifespan of HALF a year (you gonna get a resupply in 6 months?). If the answer of both questions is no, then let's go to the next step.
Airborne, SFs, and such carry much more ammo. Resupply is questionable, and they move in smaller groups. Speaking about Airborne and SFs, 20 mags in a load-out is typical - one of my buddies carried a Beta-C mag in addition to those 20 mags.
Smaller numbers mean more mags - no resupply means more mags - cheaper (easily damaged - like USGI and MagPul) mags means more mags.
So first off, decide on your load-out.
That's load outs PER WEAPON. Four rifles means four load-outs. Do YOU need all those right now? Maybe not - but if someone shows up to the party without a weapon, you gonna give 'em mags too? Or what happens if you lose your full load - now no mags for other weapons!
Then I add one load-out. Why? Because I keep one load-out minimum for practice. If I screw up a practice mag, no worries in my go-to load-outs.
Since my heavy vest carries 12 mags (actually 16, but I use one of the pouches for commo gear and such) then my load-out is 13 carbine mags total. For five carbines (four XCRs and an AR) that makes 78 mags.
So I've got 75 good, steel mags (the four XCR load-outs), two load-outs of my old military magazines (20 rounders for one, 30 rounders of the second) for the AR, and a load-out of Pmags for anything I don't care about. The Pmags include the replacements from when I broke 'em.
So the total is a decent bit over 100 mags. For five carbines.
If I was buying cheesy mags - aluminum bodies or Pmags - I'd double that number, just to compensate for expected losses from damage.
Wise words: buy 'em cheap, stack 'em deep. And buy GOOD mags - not flimsy mags. 30 thou steel is DURABLE!
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1,475 Posts
I always enjoy your thoughts bravo. Very combat oriented. I know you don't think very highly of pmags (I like em), what is your brand of choice?
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4,533 Posts
If you've got gold bricks, then the HK mags are TOP FLIGHT.
The only reason I don't keep a bunch of Pmags is 'cause that's what I took to the last class. Broke the first one within 15 minutes. If I hadn't broken them, they would have gotten my vote as "best mag value". Probably still not better than the HK mags, but at a third of the price........
The 75 steel mags I picked up were the SAR80 mags. I ran them hard at a CQB course at Gunsite a few years ago, they worked wonderfully. The only place one could get them (prior to the election) was R-Guns (same place we get those WONDERFUL Krebs AKs!). However, after the elections, they went bye-bye. No more, anywhere, at any price.
Since the SAR80 mags are gone, I'd probably do a split between HK mags, Pmags, and CProducts mags. Like 75 stainless steel (20 thou, CProducts doesn't make a 30 thou) CProducts mags, some HK mags (to run in the fast and light vests), and the balance being Pmags. But like I said, I go with extra mags.
And since I'm preaching (GRIN) - I'm a big believer in a vest PER WEAPON. If I'm gonna hand someone a weapon, I want to hand 'em a loaded vest as well. Effective fighting is more than carrying a carbine!
The only reason I don't keep a bunch of Pmags is 'cause that's what I took to the last class. Broke the first one within 15 minutes. If I hadn't broken them, they would have gotten my vote as "best mag value". Probably still not better than the HK mags, but at a third of the price........
The 75 steel mags I picked up were the SAR80 mags. I ran them hard at a CQB course at Gunsite a few years ago, they worked wonderfully. The only place one could get them (prior to the election) was R-Guns (same place we get those WONDERFUL Krebs AKs!). However, after the elections, they went bye-bye. No more, anywhere, at any price.
Since the SAR80 mags are gone, I'd probably do a split between HK mags, Pmags, and CProducts mags. Like 75 stainless steel (20 thou, CProducts doesn't make a 30 thou) CProducts mags, some HK mags (to run in the fast and light vests), and the balance being Pmags. But like I said, I go with extra mags.
And since I'm preaching (GRIN) - I'm a big believer in a vest PER WEAPON. If I'm gonna hand someone a weapon, I want to hand 'em a loaded vest as well. Effective fighting is more than carrying a carbine!
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1,475 Posts
I was actually just looking at some chest rigs... I don't have any 'gear' atm.
I was looking at skd's eagle chest rig and tactical tailor's mav.
I was looking at skd's eagle chest rig and tactical tailor's mav.
G
Guest
·during the last ban people really started to run into issues with magazines wearing out after about 5 years or so of use. AR mags particularly are suceptible to wear and feed lip deformation. get lots of GI mags and whatever else you can afford. it may be all you get for the rest of your life.
10 mags ready to go is minimum. reserve should be the same or more.
10 mags ready to go is minimum. reserve should be the same or more.
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2,839 Posts
Why am I loading up again on gear again. All I need to do is show up at your place when it all goes to hell
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4,533 Posts
MB - I don't prefer chest rigs, but that's a personal choice.
Er, before I stick my neck out too far - are you running rifle plates? If so, that changes the answer ;-)
A neighbor of mine recommended an Arktis vest. He used it and liked it - I bought one very much like his. For a "fast and light" vest, I run one of (believe it or not) the MOLLE FLV rigs. It's stripped down to not much more than support for "shoot, move, and communicate". For moving though, it's GREAT.
I bought the boy a Blackwater rig. It's OK for a junior patroling vest - it carries as much as what he can handle. When he gets bigger, I'll update that.
Er, before I stick my neck out too far - are you running rifle plates? If so, that changes the answer ;-)
A neighbor of mine recommended an Arktis vest. He used it and liked it - I bought one very much like his. For a "fast and light" vest, I run one of (believe it or not) the MOLLE FLV rigs. It's stripped down to not much more than support for "shoot, move, and communicate". For moving though, it's GREAT.
I bought the boy a Blackwater rig. It's OK for a junior patroling vest - it carries as much as what he can handle. When he gets bigger, I'll update that.
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1,038 Posts
Post a pic of that thing!
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4,533 Posts
Well, I would, but the girlfriend already left - she's got the digital camera.
And digital camera know-how too, judging by the blurry photos I take.
HOWEVER - here's the vest, and the place I bought it from. Except when I got the one for my boy, multicam was still an option - looks like they're out of that now.
http://www.botachtactical.com/blzipvewm4ma.html
And digital camera know-how too, judging by the blurry photos I take.
HOWEVER - here's the vest, and the place I bought it from. Except when I got the one for my boy, multicam was still an option - looks like they're out of that now.
http://www.botachtactical.com/blzipvewm4ma.html
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923 Posts
Bravo
What vest would you recommend ?
I am thinking about getting one but not sure which one I am thinking about getting one that would be fairly light something like 6-10 AR mags and 4-6 pistol mags preferably compatible with camelbaks and it would have to have room for a first aid kit and some commo gear
I am planning to ask for it for christmas along with a reloading set
What vest would you recommend ?
I am thinking about getting one but not sure which one I am thinking about getting one that would be fairly light something like 6-10 AR mags and 4-6 pistol mags preferably compatible with camelbaks and it would have to have room for a first aid kit and some commo gear
I am planning to ask for it for christmas along with a reloading set
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4,533 Posts
TW, this is gonna sound stupid, but here we go.
I'd recommend a simple MOLLE FLC. If you don't mind the zipper / desert tan version, you can pick one up new (including delivery) for about 15 bucks off of ebay. Like here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330284397447&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014
Personally, I don't like the zipper on the newer revision. The older version just had the buckles - which I like.
All that is, is a chassis.
Then get whatever you want to pack on there, as modular pouches. This gives you the capability of trying out all kinds of arrangements. For modular stuff, I like HSGI and Diamondback Tactical mostly, although I will admit to having used Marsgear mag pouches (didn't know it was chicom until it arrived) with some mods. Tip: the larger M60 pouches hold a 2-quart flexible canteen.
I'm "somewhat vertically challenged" (at the national average for height), and don't like vests made for taller people riding up too high under my arms. And you've gotta have it somewhat high, or else the waistbelt on your ruck will fight for airspace with it. Nor can I tolerate pouches or adjustments up around my shoulders - I like CLEAN access to where the buttstock touches my shoulder, and I'm picky about the thickness of the shoulder pads as well. Hated the old deuce gear pads, always battling the buttstock for realestate LOL!
Anyway, once you get things laid out the way you like them, it's QED to find a vest that is laid out identically / similarly. Or just have one custom-sewn.
The biggest problem you'll have taking this route is getting a hydration carrier on the back. Not that one can't be rigged (GRIN) - especially if you live in a town big enough to have someone sew the straps for you. It's QED to have some 1" nylon webbing sewn into the top of carrier, to connect to the top vest adjustments instead of the "stock" webbing. MOLLE to the waistbelt portion of the vest. Except my rigger moved away....... down side to living in the middle of nowhere.
Oh yeah - and on hydration pouches, watch for a couple of things. When you've got MOLLE bars on them, you can add stuff that you're not going to get into often - like your blow-out kit and NVDs. Can't leave 'em there when you ruck up, but for a patrol or something. The other thing is watch how high it rides on your back. Went prone once, and had the hydration pack push the back of the kevvie pot down in front of my eyes. That's considered "not good" LOL! I wound up going with a short / wide Camelbak reservoir.
But that's the reason I recommend going modular at first: you get a chance to WORK every arrangement. If something messes with your weapon mount, you can take it off and not destroy / molest a high-dollar sewn vest. People are too individual (in my estimation) to have a "one size fits all" solution. Just work it hard, and you'll come up with the right system FOR YOU.
My heavy vest is an Arktis. It's nice, durable, not terrible on ventilation, and works for me OK. I'd change a couple of things if I could, but it's a good vest as-is. If I'd had to pay anywhere near full price for it, I would have had one custom-sewn to mimic the FLC I worked up instead though.
FWIW
I'd recommend a simple MOLLE FLC. If you don't mind the zipper / desert tan version, you can pick one up new (including delivery) for about 15 bucks off of ebay. Like here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330284397447&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014
Personally, I don't like the zipper on the newer revision. The older version just had the buckles - which I like.
All that is, is a chassis.
Then get whatever you want to pack on there, as modular pouches. This gives you the capability of trying out all kinds of arrangements. For modular stuff, I like HSGI and Diamondback Tactical mostly, although I will admit to having used Marsgear mag pouches (didn't know it was chicom until it arrived) with some mods. Tip: the larger M60 pouches hold a 2-quart flexible canteen.
I'm "somewhat vertically challenged" (at the national average for height), and don't like vests made for taller people riding up too high under my arms. And you've gotta have it somewhat high, or else the waistbelt on your ruck will fight for airspace with it. Nor can I tolerate pouches or adjustments up around my shoulders - I like CLEAN access to where the buttstock touches my shoulder, and I'm picky about the thickness of the shoulder pads as well. Hated the old deuce gear pads, always battling the buttstock for realestate LOL!
Anyway, once you get things laid out the way you like them, it's QED to find a vest that is laid out identically / similarly. Or just have one custom-sewn.
The biggest problem you'll have taking this route is getting a hydration carrier on the back. Not that one can't be rigged (GRIN) - especially if you live in a town big enough to have someone sew the straps for you. It's QED to have some 1" nylon webbing sewn into the top of carrier, to connect to the top vest adjustments instead of the "stock" webbing. MOLLE to the waistbelt portion of the vest. Except my rigger moved away....... down side to living in the middle of nowhere.
Oh yeah - and on hydration pouches, watch for a couple of things. When you've got MOLLE bars on them, you can add stuff that you're not going to get into often - like your blow-out kit and NVDs. Can't leave 'em there when you ruck up, but for a patrol or something. The other thing is watch how high it rides on your back. Went prone once, and had the hydration pack push the back of the kevvie pot down in front of my eyes. That's considered "not good" LOL! I wound up going with a short / wide Camelbak reservoir.
But that's the reason I recommend going modular at first: you get a chance to WORK every arrangement. If something messes with your weapon mount, you can take it off and not destroy / molest a high-dollar sewn vest. People are too individual (in my estimation) to have a "one size fits all" solution. Just work it hard, and you'll come up with the right system FOR YOU.
My heavy vest is an Arktis. It's nice, durable, not terrible on ventilation, and works for me OK. I'd change a couple of things if I could, but it's a good vest as-is. If I'd had to pay anywhere near full price for it, I would have had one custom-sewn to mimic the FLC I worked up instead though.
FWIW
Joined
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5,623 Posts
C-products 30 round stainless steel with Mar-lube coating,orange anti-tilt follower,stainless steel or chrome silicon spring for 13 bucks.I just bought 20.Will be ordering more pending funds.Christmas might be late this year.I told my better half not to buy me anything but magazines.No socks,man perfume(the ******* term being whore juice)or other meaningless crap this year.Magazine,magazines,magazines!
My idea of heaven? Loaded AR-15,1911,AK,and G3 magazines stacked clear to the heavens.Does that sound crazy to anyone?Maybe it's because I am...lmao
Anyone remember that scene from the movie Last Man Standing where Bruce Willis was loading a lifetime supply of 1911 magazines? Now you get the idea. >
My idea of heaven? Loaded AR-15,1911,AK,and G3 magazines stacked clear to the heavens.Does that sound crazy to anyone?Maybe it's because I am...lmao
Anyone remember that scene from the movie Last Man Standing where Bruce Willis was loading a lifetime supply of 1911 magazines? Now you get the idea. >
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