[rightist]

First time at the range today to zero the XCR. Using Remington UMC 55grain FMJ and some left over Wolf 55grain FMJ. The UMC ran perfectly, but I could not get the Wolf to run at all. I had multiple FTEs causing jams. If you notice in the picture the rim of the Wolf cartridge is chewed off by the extractor therefore causing the extraction failure. Anybody seen this.

 

[Merlin]

Yes, check my thread about that. It was suggested that the gas setting be set higher when shooting the Wolf ammo and a little lube in the chamber did help me.

 

[TerraShrewsbury]

How many rounds are through the rifle? What caliber is it? what gas setting are you running it on?

 

[Guest]

TURN YOUR GAS UP!!!!


Three simple rules for the XCR

1) break in your gun then check and lock tite the bolts
2) keep it properly lubricated (it's not as finicky as the AR but it still should be lubed)
3) if you get any kind of failure to extract or feed or stovepipe that is not a mag issue, turn your gas up.

 

[variablebinary]

1. Change Mags
2. Change ammo
3. Change your gas setting
4. Clean and lube your gun

5. Call Terra and she will take a mallet to your gun.

 

[o313]

Also wolf can cause an excessively dirty chamber so make sure it's clean and turn the gas up a setting.

 

[Fast Eddie]

If this is the polymer coated steel Wolf ammo, I had numerous fte with a keltec .223 and then on round 5 a casing got stuck in the chamber so badly I bent two brass rods trying to pound it out of the chamber. Finally took it to a gunsmith who took it in the back and got more aggressive with it and got it out. He said he sees this with steel wolf and many ARs...infact he said it's the unusual AR that can take it. May want to go with the brass Wolf Gold if you want to stick with them. Sounds like your ejector was doing it's best to get that bastard out. I guess the polymer coating turns to glue at the right heat!

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

If that case wasn't extracted it wasn't because it didn't have sufficient force being imparted by the gas system,or it wouldn't look like the extractor tried it's ass off to rip the rim off the case.Lacquer coating (which Wolf no longer uses) wouldn't have caused this either.Rumors about it's gluing cases to chambers circulated around the internet but they are untrue.Steel cases are not as elastic as brass,therefore do not conform to the chamber walls as well when fired.Because of this there is some blow-by which causes fouling buildup in the chamber which,added to the fact that Wolf is not very clean burning ammo can cause cartridges with not as much body taper(5.56x45) vs cartridges with more body taper(7.62x39) to not extract as well after firing enough rounds to get that buildup.This is especially true if you start firing brass cased ammo behind steel cased ammo,because now you have an already powder fouled chamber,coupled with a tighter expanding case.The reason lubrication helps this is because it helps keep the residue soft,basically the same reason gas impinged AR's need lubrication to keep them running when really dirty,too much fouling causes sticky extraction because chamber tolerances are tightened.Personally I think for maximum reliability all military small arms should use a fluted chamber to help eliminate this.The Russians just use looser tolerances,but at the expense of some accuracy.

 

[rightist]

How many rounds are through the rifle? What caliber is it? what gas setting are you running it on?

5.56mm, +-30 rounds through the rifle, gas setting 4

 

[MickeyC]

How many of those cases had the rim torn off? Next time you are out, shut off the gas and fire one round then manually cycle the action. It it easy or hard to cycle the rifle?

 

[rightist]

If that case wasn't extracted it wasn't because it didn't have sufficient force being imparted by the gas system,or it wouldn't look like the extractor tried it's ass off to rip the rim off the case.Lacquer coating (which Wolf no longer uses) wouldn't have caused this either.Rumors about it's gluing cases to chambers circulated around the internet but they are untrue.Steel cases are not as elastic as brass,therefore do not conform to the chamber walls as well when fired.Because of this there is some blow-by which causes fouling buildup in the chamber which,added to the fact that Wolf is not very clean burning ammo can cause cartridges with not as much body taper(5.56x45) vs cartridges with more body taper(7.62x39) to not extract as well after firing enough rounds to get that buildup.This is especially true if you start firing brass cased ammo behind steel cased ammo,because now you have an already powder fouled chamber,coupled with a tighter expanding case.The reason lubrication helps this is because it helps keep the residue soft,basically the same reason gas impinged AR's need lubrication to keep them running when really dirty,too much fouling causes sticky extraction because chamber tolerances are tightened.Personally I think for maximum reliability all military small arms should use a fluted chamber to help eliminate this.The Russians just use looser tolerances,but at the expense of some accuracy.

I agree, its not as if the rifle is not trying. It's completely sheering the rim off the casing in its attempt to extract the round.

 

[rightist]

How many of those cases had the rim torn off? Next time you are out, shut off the gas and fire one round then manually cycle the action. It it easy or hard to cycle the rifle?

Every Wolf cartridge I tried failed to extract. Every UMC I tried worked perfectly.

 

[MickeyC]

Did they all have the rim torn off?

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

It's possible you have an unusually tight chamber.Try using brass cased ammo for the first several hundred rounds.Once everything is broken in it should do fine with the steel cased ammo.If not you may want to send you barrel back to Robinson to have it checked out.Lube the chamber lightly during break-in as well,this should cure your problem.

 

[rightist]

Did they all have the rim torn off?

yep, all the same.

 

[MickeyC]

If you are following the break in process then I would suggest that it's either an issue with the laquer and a tight chamber. If you have calipers measure the brass cases and then do the same with the Wolf steel cases. See if there is a difference.

Usually a rim being torn off is due to the case being held too tightly in the chamber. Several things can cause it, such as an out of spec chamber, out of spec ammo or in the case of Wolf, too much laquer.

Finish the break-in with the PMC and then try a mag of Wolf.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

If you aren't having issues extracting brass cased ammo it's obviously the steel cased stuff causing problems.Hotter brass cased ammo is recommended for break-in.After everything has had a chance to wear in together a little it should be fine.Gas pressure isn't the issue either if it were the extractor wouldn't have ripped the rim off.I've ran a bunch of steel cased ammo in mine with no problems as have many others,so that isn't the problem,it just needs to be broken in,and like I mentioned it's possible you have a tight chamber.

 

[Guest]

1- finish breaking in your gun with some hotter ammo. wolf is notoriously underpowered.

2- remove the dial from your gas block and check inside for flashing on the individual gas orifices. clean up any imperfections with a needle file or other implement CAREFULLY.

3-clean your chamber

ALSO PER ALEX'S THREAD, try removing your gas block and cleaning the engagment surfaces then re-installing it making sure that it is seated correctly over the barrel orifice.


Just because you dont understand why it's the gas doesnt mean it's not the gas system. 8)

 

[Fast Eddie]

No offense but some of you guys need to get out more. Steel cased Wolf ammo is notorious for jamming in chambers and failures to extract. It doesn't have anything to do with being underpowered. It jams solid. Kel Tec warns against using steel cased ammo in their PLR-16 and SU16 .223 guns. Had it happen to one of mine and since, it has come up as a topic of discussion with many others who report the same thing. I was at a gun show this weekend and a guy at an ammo dealer was saying how envious he was of a buddy who's AR would gobble up Wolf without any problems, but that his would jam up every time. Obviously Wolf sells alot of this stuff so it must work for somebody, but these stories are far from rare. I don't know if it's the lacquer on old ammo, the polymer on the new stuff or carbon build up, but whatever it is it can lock a case in the chamber that requires a heavy hammer and rod to get out., I don't know if Alex has spec'd out the XCR so that it will specifically take steel ammo, but I would certainly think long and hard before I had my chamber reamed out to get AK reliability with steel ammo if it also gave me AK accuracy.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

Not all AR chambers are created equally.Some are 5.56x45 some are 223.Some have what is referred to as a Wylde chamber which is a compromise between the two.The differences should be minimal,but it affects pressure curves inside your barrel.A .223 throat will be smaller than the 5.56,this may explain why some AR's will work with Wolf ammo and some will not.You also have to understand the direct impingement system is much more finicky about ammo pressure than a gas piston system.Therefore Wolf being slightly less powerfull than most other .223 ammunition may or may not work as well with certain brand AR's.I still contest that the steel cases not fully expanding or conforming to the inside of the chamber is what leads to blow-by and thus fouling and buildup of carbon on the the chamber walls around the case,leading to a increasing tighter chamber.

Just because you don't understand why it's the gas doesn't mean it's not the gas system.

I'm not sure who that was directed towards,but I'll say this again.If the extractor was ripping the rim off the cases,it had to be driven sufficiently by the gas system to have that much force to do so.It was simply that the case was stuck in the chamber.