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Discussion Starter #1
Why not name this post what it will be called anyways.

Since I have a family, a new baby, work, and I actually get out to shoot, I'm left with little time to argue with the true believers.  However, pot shots are fun.  And those who have seen my posts know I like to have fun and not take this make believe world, the matrix...err, I meant the internet too seriously.

Let me put it this way;  I do investigation for a large federal agency (that shall remain unnamed) as an agent.  My job is to get to the truth and expose liars.  It's really easy for me and fun to do.  You've seen my same screen name on GT, and I'm also on AZ Shooting and azexarms forum recently.  I got booted from ARFKOM for the simple reason that I stood for what I believe in and called BS on Ed's Sr. with less than 14 posts (most of us from AZ have been booted from there anyways for political beliefs.  Only the brown nosers have been allowed to remain).

I'm sure you have some time VB and Tzoid, and both of you seem pretty sharp.

Look at that MSAR thread:    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=227322&page=1

Look carefully at each post, and I'll let those speak for itself.  Starting from around page 18 or so (but look at all of them) notice who is saying what, who had interests w/MSAR, who's post have been edited (1138), which dates, and compare that to when did MSAR become and "industry partner".  I know I saw one post of a guy that has an AUG and swapped parts only to find it didn't fit.  That post dissapeared, and to date no one will again verify if it fits or not.  We already know the answer.  Also note Pete's post, which was edited by him, and I saw the exact same thing posted on his site, but it is gone now.  I can't help but to notice these things.  My BS radar never shuts off.

And talk about speculation, when one arfkkommer started saying how Pete might have just been a consultant and his job was done.  WTF?!?!?!  Merges his company, "invests" all his AUG parts inventory, and moves from NC to PA lock stock and barrel, just so one day he is answering phones like business is normal (seen by us) and the next day he's gone?  How'd you like to be on a cruise ship and see the captain and the first mate argue and see one of them take off on a life boat as you sit there with a dumb look on your face while holding a shuffle board stick in your hand.  Not too confidence inspiring, is it?

There is also a thread in the same area talking about Pete Athens.

See what others have to say about Microtech and Tony M.:

http://www.microholics.org/cgi-micr...7df4d9f95728886f8f60686f5;act=ST;f=19;t=13251

others:

http://www.subguns.com/boards/inquiryarchive.cgi?noframes;read=32335

I read all of those long before the STG556's release.  I still had that wait and see approach.  Then came the issues.  Now it's a wait and see what drama will happen next?  For the most part, many have posted exactly what I've concluded on many aspects about the subject, BEFORE I read the post!!  VB nailed it right about what Pete did for the AUG in the US and asks the same thing I do;  Who at MSAR is an engineer or really knows, or has experience how to build weapons?  Tony M?  MSAR has too many issues for me to be confident to get one of their rifles! 

And see what has been said about the rifle.  Marfione for one, Pete's deal, certain vendors who post on ARFKKOM, which brings up how ironic these same guys bring up the 2A, RKBA, and freedom issues, but yet use tyranical tactics to make you agree with them.  Seems to me many questions are being skirted here.  At least Kent from TPD manned up on SF and fired some volleys back.  And I believe he is an engineer too. 

Pete even said it on his web page before he took it off, "you can't argue with an idiot".  Well seeing how many of those true believers on arfkkom and SF flip anytime you mention anything negative about their beloved and flawless MSAR, and they don't even realize all they have done is become free advertisement for them.  One must merely wonder, how is like in their little make believe world in their heads?

Those guys remind me of exactly the wife of a guy who had child porn recorded on his cell phone.  I had to interview her and if I got $5 for everytime she said "he coudln't do anything like that", "he's not like that", and "he didn't do that",  I could have made that $1000 deposit for one of those MSAR's.  I couldn't convince her that her hubby is a POS, regardless of how many tours he did in the sandbox.  Same mentality, I swear!  (w/the wife, not the perv hubby)

And to Sterling99, or others who may have gotten the STG556, please don't take this as an attack on you personally.  You guys are good guys, but I'll tell it like it is, and as tactful as I'm allowed.  Right Slag?  I've seen this crap before and I know how it will turn out.  Enjoy your MSAR, have fun with it.  Maybe you'll be able to dump it before you get stuck with a rifle that you'll end up hardly shooting because of lack of parts or people asking and arm and a leg for an extractor pin.  Sorta like what I have to deal with my actual Steyr AUG.

BTW, for future reference, when describing MSAR, the STG-556, or any other weapon, may I suggest that people look up the definition to the following words BEFORE they use them:

Heck, I'll just cut and paste them.  Here:

per·fect (pûrfkt)
adj.
1. Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind.
2. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen.
3. Thoroughly skilled or talented in a certain field or area; proficient.
b. Accurately reproducing an original: a perfect copy of the painting.
6. Complete; thorough; utter: a perfect fool.
8. Excellent and delightful in all respects: a perfect day.


flaw·less (flô'l?s)
adj.
Being entirely without flaw or imperfection. See synonyms at perfect.


ex·cel·lent (?k's?-l?nt)
adj.
Of the highest or finest quality; exceptionally good of its kind.
Archaic. Superior.



About the only thing that I've seen run flawless and perfect here, has been UPS with excellent shipping, returning, and re-shipping of all those STG556's all over the country.

Here's another "glowing", perfect and flawless MSAR report:

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/rifles-42/9809-stg-556-arrived-pics.html

Glowing, as in "another glowing report on the STG 556".  Not a very manly word, is it?

And please stop with the detailed, chrono each round, mag, reports.  I don't even look that up in a gun rag.  For those of us who actually have carried, or currently carry, AND use weapons, it means next to nothing.  I never stopped and thought, "gee, I wonder how many feet per second is that poodle round flying" while we were shooting at Iraqi soldiers and them at us.  But if you feel you must, oh well, it is a forum.  If I owned a chrono, I'd just end up doing stupid things with it, like seeing how fast does my pee travel when I take a leak, and stuff like that. 

Just knowing that I can plug a dinner plate at 200 to 300 meters, standing, and rapid fire, is good enough for me.  AND THAT IT DOESN'T FUCKIN JAM!!!!!  (Personal experience in the middle of a fire fight.  See http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Hate_the_AR15.htm ).  That and I will be finishing my 2nd mag before he manages to fumble in his 2nd mag into place. 

"Glowing reports", jeeze!

The only thing I want "glowing" are my night sights, my wife (or GF) after we get our groove on (5 kids), and my barrels after an FPF free for all firing session.



Edited to add:

Just so ya'll know what's to come:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/9911090501/p/4



Shot, over!  Shot, out!
 

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Too bad the new augs seem to be taking a dump...
if they resolve the issues I still think it's a cool platform-especially if the price comes down a bit.

slag cracks me up-it seems like he lives to troll anything vb3 posts anywhere :p
 

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Too bad the new augs seem to be taking a dump...
if they resolve the issues I still think it's a cool platform-especially if the price comes down a bit.

slag cracks me up-it seems like he lives to troll anything vb3 posts anywhere :p
Slag loves me ;D

You know the funny thing is people say I dump on every new rifle other than the XCR. Not true. I've shown enthusiasm for the SCAR, FS2000, Masada (sorta) and HK416. I just don’t like lame ducks like the 556 and fake AUG knock offs. Somehow that equals every new rifle.

These AUG look alikes have a limited shelf life and if these companies are around in 3 years I would be shocked. Like I303 already said, the MSAR gig is shady as hell, and Kent's gun doesn’t exist yet.

Seriously, you need to be brave as hell to trust either of these two new guns enough to actually pay 2k for one.

I wouldn’t, but that's just me. I can’t be too vocal on SF. People think I am just ignoring their posts, but when I tell people how it is suddenly that gun gets endangered species protected manatee status and all dissent is banned completely. Just ask Federale. He doesn’t give 556 praise so he was told to Shut up. Kind of funny.

The real amusing part is it can completely open range on the XCR and no one cares.
 

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To give a little credit to the 556, at least the thing works. You can't say that about the AUG lookalikes.

What really galls me about the MSAR (and even Kent's gun) is that these things aren't cheap! I mean, the genuine article is out there and only costs a couple of hundred more bucks. Parts are a bit of an issue, but they'll be a real issue with the lookalikes, too. Even if you're just buying it to look at (read those posts carefully...) and say you own an "AUG", you could still get a real one and be in the same place for not much more money.

The whole thing is Kafkaesque.

Oh, and do read those links by i303 and read between the lines. Again and again, you see, "Oh, it's such a nice looking gun." I have to really wonder why people are buying into this thing and I keep coming to the conclusion it's just to say they have an AUG. What is actually rather ironic is a real AUG is really kinda mangy looking. The MSAR is a nice looking gun-like object. Real AUGs have rough plastic exteriors, casting lines, mill marks and assorted cosmetic booboos from the factory. The MSAR...it's shiiiinnnneeyyyy. That about says it all from where I sit.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sloan,

I cut and pasted this directly from one of my posts on SF MSAR thread:


by i303, SigForum.com
"Fit and finish. The catch phrase for the 2000's. I have a WASR 10 that looks like it was put together by an 11 year old child slave laborer hooked on Pop-Rocks, but after nearly 4K rounds, maybe 3 or 4 issues. I don't remember if they were FTF or FTE, who care's. It cost me 4.00, I can let those slide. Fit and finish is a great indicator if it is a great product. Just ask anyone who owns a Lamborghini. And it spends most of the time in the shop too."


$314 was the out the door price. In fact I used it last night to squish one of our AZ centipedes that sneak into our house with the butt stock. CAN A STG 556 DO THAT!!!

Now I have to go to work.
 

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The real amusing part is it can completely open range on the XCR and no one cares.
It's a logistics problem. Folks who own crappy rifles can't/don't go shooting as much and thus have more time to post on forums. :eek:

XCR owners aren't so lucky in avoiding that extra trip to the range, the XCR is just too much fun to shoot to be able to stay home and post on forums.
 

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To give a little credit to the 556, at least the thing works. You can't say that about the AUG lookalikes.

What really galls me about the MSAR (and even Kent's gun) is that these things aren't cheap! I mean, the genuine article is out there and only costs a couple of hundred more bucks. Parts are a bit of an issue, but they'll be a real issue with the lookalikes, too. Even if you're just buying it to look at (read those posts carefully...) and say you own an "AUG", you could still get a real one and be in the same place for not much more money.

The whole thing is Kafkaesque.

Oh, and do read those links by i303 and read between the lines. Again and again, you see, "Oh, it's such a nice looking gun." I have to really wonder why people are buying into this thing and I keep coming to the conclusion it's just to say they have an AUG. What is actually rather ironic is a real AUG is really kinda mangy looking. The MSAR is a nice looking gun-like object. Real AUGs have rough plastic exteriors, casting lines, mill marks and assorted cosmetic booboos from the factory. The MSAR...it's shiiiinnnneeyyyy. That about says it all from where I sit.
You are so right about how real AUG's look. They are horrific. I was playing with a Class 3 yesterday evening and it really was crude looking. Fit and finish was bad but I would still take one over a pretty, fake ass AUG look alike.
 

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In true Pulp Fiction Samuel L Jackson Style, "ALLOW ME TO RETORT!"

i303-

First and foremost thank you for your service. Like many of us I wish I had the balls to put on a badge and for next to nothing in pay have to deal with our society's criminal element. I have taken no personal offense to your comments and much like VB's comments I highly value your opinions. You guys carry your firearms while in harms way, there is no greater trust then that which you put into your guns. So when you have something to say, I listen.

Let me put my comments on MSAR and Microtech into perspective.

I am just a dumb schmuck on the internet who works in a sales position. My job allows me to enjoy the finer things in life in regards to my chosen hobby of firearms. Like many I put my hobby before other things, maybe some day I will learn.

This past birthday I was given a MICROTECH UDT7 knife. I was very impressed with the overall quality of the knife and was happy with how it functioned. I carried it everyday and even used it on occasion. One day I broke the tip of the knife and thought I was out of luck. I contacted Microtech and even if it was my fault, they made it right. I sent the knife back and they sent a replacement. ALL OF IT on their dime, to me it was impressive customer service.

I then learned that this same company was going to be releasing a version of the my much desired AUG. I am one of those people that have always wanted an AUG much like I have always wanted a SIG 552. Am I going to use these rifles for anything other then target shooting and maybe a carbine class someday, hopefully not. Why do I want them? I think they look awesome and I am a student of modern small arms development, I do not think anyone could argue these two rifles are unique.

My dreams of having a SIG 552 where crushed earlier this year when SIG released the 556. It was like finding out the prom queen was going to be a drag queen (I could go on but well, it's been said).

However!, Maybe I could get my long sought after AUG! Yes it is a copy, yes it was a lot of money, yes I felt like a beta testing idiot but you know what, I was going to have a brand new AUG looking thing. Getting a first gen XCR worked out pretty well, maybe my luck would hold.

I saw the thread on AR15.COM and thought maybe I had made a mistake and even called to cancel at one point. I talking to "keith" and he is either a great liar or a good salesman (maybe these are synonymous?) but he convinced me to stick it out.

I am happy I did.

Bottom line. The gun does look awesome, the packaging was awesome, and I had a smile on my face when we opened it up. However, if it does not work, I wasted my money. I ran off to the range with 100 rounds of .223 (money is tight after this purchase) and I loaded up all the mags fully expecting the thing to detonate into little green pieces representing the money I spent.

To my surprise I did not have one issue. All rounds ejected perfectly, all mags worked perfectly, all rounds hit center target to the best of MY ability at 50 yards. I do not own a chronograph or anything sophisticated to test velocity's of rounds nor do I need to. I just pull the trigger hoping to hear bang and that my shot goes somewhere near the center X.

Guys, if the thing blows up tomorrow I think MSAR is going to make it right. While that is just my opinion my prior experience with them tells me that my trust is soundly placed.

I do not know who Mr Athens is but business is business, I am sure he had his reasons for leaving. However, If he had a hand in building my rifle I would like to thank him, I have always wanted one.

I will let you guys know what happens when I am north of 1k rounds..........900 left to go.

Now where the hell did I put my XCR?

Disclaimer:

This is not a glowing report is it more of a chartreuse maybe even a purple haze type :)
 

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I gotta ask: how much did you pay for it?

Then I gotta ask again: Why not a Steyr AUG or USR for $2600 to $2900?

That's what I want to know!

Also, keep us filled in. Real range reports are always good. Even the Steyr AUG itself isn't exactly trouble free (though, it's mostly so). They have had a light firing pin strike issue from early on. This was cured with the A2 variant (USR to us regular guys). I'd also like to see some detailed photos of the rifle's innards. I've seen a little in the arfcom threads and have been scratching my head over some of the stuff I've seen. I'd like to see more to see exactly where Microtech has gone their own way.

I'm not down on Microtech itself. I have a MT knife and it's a pretty damned good knife. I also know Tony has a reputation of being difficult to deal with. This isn't exactly unique in the firearms community. Far from it. I've had trouble with KAC enough to try the patience of not just one, but a whole company of saints. And Sigarms. And HK (of course).
 

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I got the LE for 2000 bucks

Because any AUG I bought would have been a USED firearm for approx 2800 bucks. That is for a BEAT up one I saw one time. I will keep you updated as time goes on!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
USR's can be found around $2300. Yeah it's the neutered version but not by far, and it is the A2 style.

Parts are a bitch to get. That is where Pete Athens of PJ's AUG came in, before the MSAR drama. We don't know what he will do next.

I'm really hoping TPD comes into play with US made parts for the AUG. The TPD apparently is more AUG parst friendly. No one has been able to "officially" verify the parts comapatability w/the AUG and MSAR is totally silent about it.
 

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Yea but you get that extra piece of plastic behind the grip. I hate that.

Meanwhile, check out my post on SF I seem to have an extra part when I was done taking it apart....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
There is some debate about wether one can un-neuter the USR once the AWB ended, but I think 922r still rules over them. BATF doesn't exactly come around the hood too often so I wouldn't think to worry about it too much, but better be safe than sorry. The AUG/USR (and it's copies and clones) aren't that great of a rifle for me to get another one anyways.

Yeah, I saw your post on SF. Doesn't look like no AUG part I recognize. Is it metal or plastic? Are you sure you didn't break off a shirt button? LOL.
 

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It is plastic. Funny thing is I am looking at it and thinking "Did this thing come out of the MSAR?, where the hell did it come from!"

Thanks for the comments man. I have to go to sleep to pay for all this fun at work tomorrow.

Keep your head down.
 

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Very Informative thread...

Nice to see the flow of information without the Bullshit and smart ass comments.

;D
 

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UPDATE:

I sent pics to MSAR and got a reply. I do see where the part goes and it snapped back in. I have now taken the rifle all the way down and put it back together. I must comment that it seems very solid and I continue to be impressed with the customer service from MSAR.

It is now dripping with oil and in the safe. I will take it out for 200 rounds before the week is out.
 

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Sooo...what was the part? I don't recall any plastic buttons in an AUG. We need pictures!

I need to get my AUG out and run a few hundred rounds through it. The XCR is monopolizing all my poodle-shooter time.
 

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Well no pics tonight. However, it was a plastic ring that went went around the operating. There is a matching one on the other side apparently MSAR says it is a recoil buffer.
 
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