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Does anybody shoot the M1 Grand anymore? Tell us about it( pros & cons).
M1 Grand
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The M1 was my first match rifle, back when I was young and wanted to start shooting in the DCM service rifle comps. Obviously that was back when the Garand was one of the rifles allowed in the service rifle category, and back when there was a DCM instead of a CMP.
Now it has its own category - service rifle is only for the M14 (or M1A) and M16 (or AR15).
I could wax nostalgic about my coach and mentor, that first Garand, and learning to hit precisely out to 600. Or those rare range days when we'd open up the full length, and go to 1000 yards. Suffice it to say, the Garand is a tremendous stick.
At one point, mine started tossing partially used clips - which would get caught in the cycling bolt and such. It was rare at first, but became more and more frequent until I finally took it in and asked someone to diagnose it. The clip retainer spring had gone soft, and needed replacement. I couldn't buy one, they came in packages of three - for a quarter. I was then admonished to change out that spring every 50 years, or I'd have the same problem again later
Best of luck with your Garand. They are WONDERFUL aids in marksmanship training! As well, the CMP (I don't shoot service rifle any more, nowhere around to do it, but I still keep up on these things) has cheap Greek ammo too.
Not a member of the CMP? I can help with that one!
Now it has its own category - service rifle is only for the M14 (or M1A) and M16 (or AR15).
I could wax nostalgic about my coach and mentor, that first Garand, and learning to hit precisely out to 600. Or those rare range days when we'd open up the full length, and go to 1000 yards. Suffice it to say, the Garand is a tremendous stick.
At one point, mine started tossing partially used clips - which would get caught in the cycling bolt and such. It was rare at first, but became more and more frequent until I finally took it in and asked someone to diagnose it. The clip retainer spring had gone soft, and needed replacement. I couldn't buy one, they came in packages of three - for a quarter. I was then admonished to change out that spring every 50 years, or I'd have the same problem again later
Best of luck with your Garand. They are WONDERFUL aids in marksmanship training! As well, the CMP (I don't shoot service rifle any more, nowhere around to do it, but I still keep up on these things) has cheap Greek ammo too.
Not a member of the CMP? I can help with that one!
The Garand is a pretty good gun. I don't own one myself (I have a 1941 Johnson instead), but several of my friends do. They're good shooters and the gun handles pretty well. I'm personally not a fan of the enbloc clip, but like most things it has its good points and bad.
Garands have good triggers, simply peerless sights, and usually shoot pretty well. They're prone to bedding issues (not a huge deal, but you'll run into this when searching for extreme accuracy) and some hassles centering around the clips themselves. Some don't care for the gun's ergonomics; complaints usually involving the safety inside the triggerguard.
The main reason I don't have one is I already have to feed two rifles (the Johnson and a '17 Enfield) with .30-'06 and if I add a third it'll be an '03 Springfield. I may eventually end up with one if I see a price I can't refuse. Until then mediocre .30-'06 availability holds me back and I'm not presently equipped to reload for it. Too many other projects going on that have priority over a caliber I only shoot a few times a year.
Garands have good triggers, simply peerless sights, and usually shoot pretty well. They're prone to bedding issues (not a huge deal, but you'll run into this when searching for extreme accuracy) and some hassles centering around the clips themselves. Some don't care for the gun's ergonomics; complaints usually involving the safety inside the triggerguard.
The main reason I don't have one is I already have to feed two rifles (the Johnson and a '17 Enfield) with .30-'06 and if I add a third it'll be an '03 Springfield. I may eventually end up with one if I see a price I can't refuse. Until then mediocre .30-'06 availability holds me back and I'm not presently equipped to reload for it. Too many other projects going on that have priority over a caliber I only shoot a few times a year.
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oh ya? :crossedfingers:
I've been meaning to do this... I've been wanting a garand for a while now
I also need to get my 01/03 one of these days...
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SURE!!!
Go to an Appleseed. Spend $70 for the weekend. If you can shoot rifle expert, then this will be a great exercise. If you can't, they'll get you spooled up to shooting rifleman QUICK.
Then spend the extra $20 to join the RWVA. That's a CMP approved club (a requirement that you be a member) and you just completed a CMP required activity - the Appleseed!
There is one near you. There HAS to be one near you. If there isn't, let me know, I'll do what I can to GET one near you.
Go to an Appleseed. Spend $70 for the weekend. If you can shoot rifle expert, then this will be a great exercise. If you can't, they'll get you spooled up to shooting rifleman QUICK.
Then spend the extra $20 to join the RWVA. That's a CMP approved club (a requirement that you be a member) and you just completed a CMP required activity - the Appleseed!
There is one near you. There HAS to be one near you. If there isn't, let me know, I'll do what I can to GET one near you.
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any being done in the western PA region?
I think I've read it before, but what was their 'expert' classification?
what are the ammo/equipment requirements for the appleseed shoots?
I think I've read it before, but what was their 'expert' classification?
what are the ammo/equipment requirements for the appleseed shoots?
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Here's where to check on the Appleseed schedule:
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/
I feel quite comfortable in saying there will be something close to you (due to my location, I call "close" within 200 miles) :duh:
Their expert classification is what the Army says the expert classification is - 210 or better on the qualification course of fire. Standing (offhand), intermediate (sitting or kneeling), and prone. Prone goes slowfire and rapidfire, intermediate is rapidfire, and standing is slowfire.
Equipment requirements are:
1. A GOOD ATTITUDE!
2. See #1
3. A rifle would be nice.
4. Ammo - bring 400 rounds for the weekend, you'll probably take a little home.
5. A sling! A real, proper sling, that is an aide to accurate shooting!
6. Some mags would be nice (GRIN)
Really, there's plenty of info on the Appleseed site, but feel free to hit me with any questions. I've been to two (taken my son) and have plans to take him to at least 3 more in '08 - and I'm putting one on too.
On the Garands, if you're looking for a new Navy NM barrel (those were in 308) let me know - my gunsmith is the Navy's NM team armorer. Seems that he wound up with the end of those barrels when using them went outside the realm of the competitions.
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/
I feel quite comfortable in saying there will be something close to you (due to my location, I call "close" within 200 miles) :duh:
Their expert classification is what the Army says the expert classification is - 210 or better on the qualification course of fire. Standing (offhand), intermediate (sitting or kneeling), and prone. Prone goes slowfire and rapidfire, intermediate is rapidfire, and standing is slowfire.
Equipment requirements are:
1. A GOOD ATTITUDE!
2. See #1
3. A rifle would be nice.
4. Ammo - bring 400 rounds for the weekend, you'll probably take a little home.
5. A sling! A real, proper sling, that is an aide to accurate shooting!
6. Some mags would be nice (GRIN)
Really, there's plenty of info on the Appleseed site, but feel free to hit me with any questions. I've been to two (taken my son) and have plans to take him to at least 3 more in '08 - and I'm putting one on too.
On the Garands, if you're looking for a new Navy NM barrel (those were in 308) let me know - my gunsmith is the Navy's NM team armorer. Seems that he wound up with the end of those barrels when using them went outside the realm of the competitions.
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so bravo, it appears appleseed focuses on battle rifle shooting. I'd be just fine with this gear right?
(ignore the pistol and toes )
can you use optics, or do they focus on shooting with irons?
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(ignore the pistol and toes
)can you use optics, or do they focus on shooting with irons?
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Bullet - nice toes ;D
OK, here's the deal. Appleseeds are about MARKSMANSHIP - not equipment. If you want to run a 10/22 with optics, show up with that. If you want to run your HK91, go for it.
All you need to do is be able to hit at different ranges. Typically, the first day is run at 25 meters. Yes, 25 meters. If you can put ALL your shots within 1" at that range, with no front rest, you'll do just fine.
If you can't do that, they'll get you to the point you can.
The HK has some problems, not with the Appleseed program, but in general. The sights are neither easily adjustable nor precise, and the sling mouting points are designed for a carry strap instead of an aid to precise shooting. Even so, bring what you've got, they'll help make you a better shot with it.
The second day, depending on the range you're using, the targets can be as close as 25 meters or out to 400. That's where the statement about precise sights came from - if you get ammo that tracks the drum, you're golden. Elsewise, it's "Kentucky elevation" :duh:
And, of course, you can get your paperwork to get a Garand - a stick with tremendous sights, great sling attachment points, and a Rifleman's trigger.
But I do have to ask..... how did you get your 91 so shiny? Is it just the lighting? Mine is much, much more matte. Oh, and green furniture
OK, here's the deal. Appleseeds are about MARKSMANSHIP - not equipment. If you want to run a 10/22 with optics, show up with that. If you want to run your HK91, go for it.
All you need to do is be able to hit at different ranges. Typically, the first day is run at 25 meters. Yes, 25 meters. If you can put ALL your shots within 1" at that range, with no front rest, you'll do just fine.
If you can't do that, they'll get you to the point you can.
The HK has some problems, not with the Appleseed program, but in general. The sights are neither easily adjustable nor precise, and the sling mouting points are designed for a carry strap instead of an aid to precise shooting. Even so, bring what you've got, they'll help make you a better shot with it.
The second day, depending on the range you're using, the targets can be as close as 25 meters or out to 400. That's where the statement about precise sights came from - if you get ammo that tracks the drum, you're golden. Elsewise, it's "Kentucky elevation" :duh:
And, of course, you can get your paperwork to get a Garand - a stick with tremendous sights, great sling attachment points, and a Rifleman's trigger.
But I do have to ask..... how did you get your 91 so shiny? Is it just the lighting? Mine is much, much more matte. Oh, and green furniture
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I totally agree with you about the sights and sling issues on the ptr91 for this type of situation... that's why I wondered if it would be appropriate. I just need to do well so I can get my garand like you said ;D
I think I could still make due. I'm confident I can do 1" at 25m sitting or prone, don't know about standing freehand though.
would they really make someone with a 10/22 shoot at 400 yds? :laughposter:
I think I could still make due. I'm confident I can do 1" at 25m sitting or prone, don't know about standing freehand though.
would they really make someone with a 10/22 shoot at 400 yds? :laughposter:
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I should also ask, has anyone else done an appleseed shoot?
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Ah! Confidence on the 1" target eh? Just do it prone - the sitting and offhand targets are bigger. Heck, even the prone rapidfire targets are bigger. But be warned, it's more difficult than initially percieved.
If you're going to run a 22LR, you stay on the 25 meter line. No worries. And don't think it's easy - the 22LR is pretty unforgiving. My son runs a CZ 452 at these - I typically run a rack grade M14.
When I get the XCR rigged for a good traditional 2 point, I'm gonna give it a go. Just seems a bit like cheating is all....
If you're going to run a 22LR, you stay on the 25 meter line. No worries. And don't think it's easy - the 22LR is pretty unforgiving. My son runs a CZ 452 at these - I typically run a rack grade M14.
When I get the XCR rigged for a good traditional 2 point, I'm gonna give it a go. Just seems a bit like cheating is all....
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so they have their own type of targets for the ranges? are they available on their site? also, how many rounds per group?
I never want to be overconfident on shooting because there is always someone that will make you look silly, I just know I can do the inch at the 25m especially prone. I really like the programs like appleseed that emphasize field positions rather than static bench shooting. that's what I try to practice.
Btw, the xcr is cheating there
I've done fairly rapid cadence ~1.5" groups at 50yds prone with the xcr ;D
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I never want to be overconfident on shooting because there is always someone that will make you look silly, I just know I can do the inch at the 25m especially prone. I really like the programs like appleseed that emphasize field positions rather than static bench shooting. that's what I try to practice.
Btw, the xcr is cheating there
I've done fairly rapid cadence ~1.5" groups at 50yds prone with the xcr ;D
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Oh! I almost forgot... here is a cool ww2 training video for the grunts and their garands. It has great instruction on shooting technique, and one of the best explanations of windage and elevation I've seen.
http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1
(ignore the chicken wing standing technique though )
http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1
(ignore the chicken wing standing technique though
)
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actually I do...
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iirc they have more flutes than original 91's... still leaves a pretty good ejection ding on most cases though.
iirc they have more flutes than original 91's... still leaves a pretty good ejection ding on most cases though.
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Sure thing - the targets are full sized siloughettes reduced in dimension to mimic 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards. All at the 25 meter line.
As in when you say that the siloughette you're aiming at (at 25 meters) takes up a touch under half the width of your front sight blade, a full sized siloughette at 400 will take up a touch under half the width of your front sight blade.
Typically they do 10 round groups - many will include a mag change in the specified time. Just like the DCM (er, now CMP) shoots.
1" will get you in pretty well - you'll be in the black of the scoring rings. A bit tighter will get rifle expert. It's literally the same Army qualification test as was used for decades.
As in when you say that the siloughette you're aiming at (at 25 meters) takes up a touch under half the width of your front sight blade, a full sized siloughette at 400 will take up a touch under half the width of your front sight blade.
Typically they do 10 round groups - many will include a mag change in the specified time. Just like the DCM (er, now CMP) shoots.
1" will get you in pretty well - you'll be in the black of the scoring rings. A bit tighter will get rifle expert. It's literally the same Army qualification test as was used for decades.
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