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I want to hear what i303/GM has to say. His opinion would hold water with me in regards to what really went down.
 

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True True, always best to get the story from those close to the source.
 

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Holy moly! I feel honored. On the subject:

Campeon and Ramos should have never been charged. EP AUSA, Johnny "I hate LE Officers and Agents" Sutton has a hard on to prosecute LEO's. Remember there were others besides these two Agents. Should they have been fired for violating policy for failure to report the shooting? I think possibly so. Policy states Agents have one hour, or as soon as feasable thereafter, to report the shooting to a supervisor. My understanding was that they did and sup told them police up your brass. But that is rumor. But convicted and sentenced under the given guidelines? WTF??

And then there is the smuggler, Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, also called by many an "undocumented immigrant" who had numerous prior apprehensions, THAT ALONE IS A SIGN THAT HE IS A SMUGGLER and not "world traveller". To add to the insult, Sutton put that POS ass AFTER DEA popped him with another load of dope, ON THE STAND!? Like they don't lie? That case should have been dismissed right then and there! Had the tables been turned around and ONE, and I mean one single reason the AUSA's office ANYWHERE would find one thing we do that MIGHT be construed as any misconduct or lack of following any procedural guidelines, they's drop the case immediately like a toxic 3 Mile Island potato. Why wasn't that fact allowed in the trial is pure BS.

That alone could have acquitted the Agents. Smugglers are very well known to use whatever tactic, and increasingly so, to return to Mexico with or without the goods. This would include the use of deadly force to include feiging having a weapon. Sutton's whole case was riveted on shitbag being shot in the ass. Is there not a case where someone could be shot in the back and it be justified? Apparently to the lead prosecutor in the case she stated to the jury that Agents are not allowed to chase suspects as per policy, therefore the Agents were not in their lawful duty at the time of the shooting. Come again? Yes, she convinced the 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty that by policy the Agents are not supposed to chase anyone. This is what floored me as to why the defense didn't object to this. I supposed she may be right because I can't find anywhere where we are mandated to pursue. There is alot listed limiting our pursuit policy REGARDING VEHICLE PURSUITS. Such as terminating if it would increase a danger to the public. But then there is this thing we call the "feasance brothers": malfeasance, misfeasance, and nonfeasance. So this set the stage. All she needed to add was the poor immigrant was shot in the back.

Now I've chase a fair number of people in most given directions, most of the time headed towards Mexico. When they are running south I've experienced being rocked (rocks thrown) as I near the border, I've had weapons feigned, actual weapons displayed (almost shot one guy until he basically knew he was .5 seconds away from being blown away. Facial expressions say alot more that words will ever say. I never said a word), this includes a guy intentionally ramming me head on in a vehicle. He too read the expression on my face. Well as you run behind someone it's not hard at all for that person to turn and point a weapon, or feign one, in hopes of whoever is chasing you would drop back. Of course this could not be proven but at least had the defense been given the opportunity to present the "immigrants" past and more recent dope arrest, besides prima facia that he is a dope smuggler, would have given the reasonable doubt.

The way this whole investigation from start to finish smells of shit. The way it was initiated I know the two main characters it involves and how it evolved. It started very close to home. One guy is quetionable as to where his loyalties lies, and I don't mean "not to rat a cop" loyalty. If a cop is dirty I will do what it takes (and have done so) to report it offically. In this case it was Aldrete-Davila's mom who personally knows an Agent's mom in Mexico, then they arrange a person to person call between the two? I'd be, "Mom. I refuse to talk to anyone about a complaint, specially a dope smuggler. Instead have HIM call this XXX number". I mean why put yourself in an investigation like this in this manner unless you actually would love to bat for the other side? THAT smells of shit. Then it gets routed through an OIG investigator that has a huge hard on and ill will towards agents. Oh my, the coincidence! I've personally witnessed this OIG investigators not so subtle hate towards BP. From there it went directly to El Paso OIG and AUSA's office to persons whom I don't know.

It really seems that as this thing progressed it was barely noticed until these guys were facing charges. It seems to me the prosecution exploited to a tee for a conviction instead in the interest of serving justice. AUSA's routinely as a rule, cut smugglers loose all of the time. Time after time until they really get jammed up and cause the death of another. And only then they will do something about it when the message couold have been received a long time ago. Why do you guys think smuggling AS A MEXICAN is so lucrative? There is nearly no reprocussions. Look what happned to Agents Aguilar's suspected killer. The guy was in Mexican custody and cut lose. I don't see the AUSA's office eagerly after him. In fact there is no warrant for his arrest the last time I heard about it.

So kill an Agent, and meh, we'll consider charging you. Shoot a POS in the ass while in the commision of a felony and anyone involved will get more time than what a child molester gets.

The positive outcome out of all this is that it woke up many people. I'm positive this helped my friend Nick Corbett after TWICE Cochise County prosecutor, Ed Reinhammer went after him. I'm sadden that both ended with a hung jury. The first time it was 10 to 2 for acquital, and 11 to 1 the last time. I almost witnesses the AUSA's office In Tucson come short of saying "fuck you" to CC prosecutor. I think Sutton has become, "Don't be like that guy" among AUSA's circle and is pretty much done for as a career. Also when it comes to following policy regarding a shooting I've followed it even before Campeon and Ramos to include when I put down injured animals. Some of the policy is BS such as we are not allowed to even practice unless it is at a sanctioned range. Ppl in DC don't have a clue as to what the SW, or norther border are like. A 'sanctioned' shooting range may be 6 hours away while 'open' range desert is at your back steps. These are the same circle of ppl that pick AUSA's.

Campeon and Ramos should not only be pardoned, but their convictions overturned, re-instated with back-pay, and then follow it up with whatever disciplinary action that need be for failure to report the shooting, but after serving what they did I think they did enough. As far as Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, he should be prosecuted for every one of his illegal entries along with bot dope smuggling events. Sutton should be fired and sued. He is definitely one fine piece of work. Read on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Sutton . Makes you wonder who's side he is one. If I were a mexican murderer or smuggler, I'd definitely work in his district.
 

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Thanks for the rundown, smells like typical liberal crap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Some other LEOs are saying at least commute the sentence , and let them just fade away , but let them go.
With all else we have happening right now ,we don't need this stain hanging around also.
 

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what exactly where they charged for?
Here is one report:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51417

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

When Border Patrol Agent Ignacio Ramos pulled the trigger last February, all he knew was that his partner was lying on the ground behind him – bloodied from a struggle with a fleeing suspect – shots had been fired and now, it appeared, the drug smuggler he was pursuing had turned toward him with what looked to be a gun in his hand. In the split-second he had to respond, Ramos determined the course of his and his partner's lives – federal prison for the next 20 years for assault with serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharging of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, violating civil rights and obstruction of justice.

Ramos, 37, is an eight-year veteran of the U.S. Naval Reserve and a former nominee for Border Patrol Agent of the Year.

On February 17, he responded to a request for back up from agent Jose Alonso Compean, 28, who noticed a suspicious van near the levee road along the Rio Grande River near the Texas town of Fabens, about 40 miles east of El Paso.

Ramos, who headed toward Fabens hoping to cut off the van, soon joined a third agent already in pursuit.

Behind the wheel of the van was an illegal alien, Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila of Mexico. Unknown to the growing number of Border Patrol agents converging on Fabens, Aldrete-Davila's van was carrying 800 pounds of marijuana.

Unable to outrun Ramos and the third agent, Aldrete-Davila stopped the van on the levee, jumped out and started running toward the river. When he reached the other side of the levee, he was met by Compean who had anticipated the smuggler's attempt to get back to Mexico.

"We both yelled out for him to stop, but he wouldn't stop, and he just kept running," Ramos told California's Inland Valley Daily Bulletin. Aldrete-Davila crossed a canal.

"At some point during the time where I'm crossing the canal, I hear shots being fired," Ramos said. "Later, I see Compean on the ground, but I keep running after the smuggler."

At that point, Ramos said, Aldrete-Davila turned toward him, pointing what looked like a gun.

"I shot," Ramos said. "But I didn't think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn't look like he had been hit at all."

The commotion and multiple calls for back up had brought seven other agents – including two supervisors – to the crossing by this time. Compean picked up his shell casings, but Ramos did not. He also did not follow agency procedure and report that he had fired his weapon.

"The supervisors knew that shots were fired," Ramos told the paper. "Since nobody was injured or hurt, we didn't file the report. That's the only thing I would've done different."

Had he done that one thing differently, it's unlikely it would have mattered to prosecutors.

Over two weeks after the incident, Christopher Sanchez, an investigator with the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General, received a call from a Border Patrol agent in Wilcox, Ariz. The agent's mother-in-law had received a call from Aldrete-Davila's mother in Mexico telling her that her son had been wounded in the buttocks in the shooting.

Sanchez followed up with a call of his own to the smuggler in Mexico.

In a move that still confuses Ramos and Compean, the U.S. government filed charges against them after giving full immunity to Aldrete-Davila and paying for his medical treatment at an El Paso hospital.

At trial, Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof told the court that the agents had violated an unarmed Aldrete-Davila's civil rights.

"The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it is a violation of someone's Fourth Amendment rights to shoot them in the back while fleeing if you don't know who they are and/or if you don't know they have a weapon," said Kanof.

Kanof dismissed Ramos' testimony that he had seen something shiny in the smuggler's hand, saying that the agent couldn't be sure it was a gun he had seen.

Further, Kanof argued, it was a violation of Border Patrol policy for agents to pursue fleeing suspects.

"Agents are not allowed to pursue. In order to exceed the speed limit, you have to get supervisor approval, and they did not," she told the Daily Bulletin.

Those shell casings Compean picked up were described to the jury as destroying the crime scene and their failure to file an incident report – punishable by a five-day suspension, according to Border Patrol regulations – an attempted cover up.

The Texas jury came back with a guilty verdict. Conviction for discharging a firearm in relation to a crime of violence has an automatic 10-year sentence. The other counts have varying punishments. Ramos and Compean will be sentenced next month.

"How are we supposed to follow the Border Patrol strategy of apprehending terrorists or drug smugglers if we are not supposed to pursue fleeing people?" said Ramos, who noted that he only did on that day what he had done for the previous 10 years. "Everybody who's breaking the law flees from us. What are we supposed to do? Do they want us to catch them or not?"

He also noted that none of the other agents who had responded to the incident filed reports that shots were fired and, besides, both supervisors at the scene knew they had discharged their weapons.

"You need to tell a supervisor because you can't assume that a supervisor knows about it," Kanof countered. "You have to report any discharge of a firearm."

"This is the greatest miscarriage of justice I have ever seen," said Andy Ramirez of the nonprofit group Friends of the Border Patrol. "This drug smuggler has fully contributed to the destruction of two brave agents and their families and has sent a very loud message to the other Border Patrol agents: If you confront a smuggler, this is what will happen to you."

The El Paso Sheriff's Department has increased its patrols around the Ramos home. The family is receiving threats from people they believe are associated with Aldrete-Davila.
 

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that has to be one of the most retarded things i have ever heard. Who the F cares if some drub smuggler got shot in the ass? GREAT! Should have aimed higher. They should have given these guys medals.

Border patrol not allowed to pursue suspected? That should change.

And since when are illegal aliens covered under the constitution?

This is retared.
 

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Bush will not do the right thing, havent you guys figured it out yet? We have all been sold down the road.
 

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Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a whole lot of help coming for the agents.

First, Bush is not known for doing the "right thing" or intervening in cases of injustice.

Second, Sutton is one of Bush's dogs; Bush is not likely to kick his dog.

And how does this come up being the liberals' fault? Sutton is a Republican.

tk
 

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Sorry, I have to disagree with most of you for one reason only. What actually went down and how will always be debatable. These two agents went through the criminal justice system. As imperfect as it may be, if the criminal justice system is not good enough for these two then why is it good enough for you and me? I am not anti-cop or pro drug smuggler but if our system is to have any credibilty at all then it can't be mucked up by having "get out of jail free" cards being tossed around for political reasons.
 

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I actually heard more of the background about the trial (I live in South Texas). Turns out that the jury was never told that the "victim" was a drug smuggler who was shot during the commission of a felony or that he was in the country illegally or that the government had given him immunity to come testify. Since the original trial, some of the jurors have said that had they known the actual circumstances of the "victim" there would not have been a guilty verdict. There was also some report of the prosecutor conspiring with witness' to lie on the stand.

Once most of the story is heard, one realizes that the jury was led to the verdict with blinders on. I have heard that the Border Patrol here is having a hard time with recruiting :duh:.
 

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Sorry, I have to disagree with most of you for one reason only. What actually went down and how will always be debatable. These two agents went through the criminal justice system. As imperfect as it may be, if the criminal justice system is not good enough for these two then why is it good enough for you and me? I am not anti-cop or pro drug smuggler but if our system is to have any credibilty at all then it can't be mucked up by having "get out of jail free" cards being tossed around for political reasons.
The same legal system where a burglar can sue a homeowner because the burglar was injured during a home invasion? I don't think so. Our legal system sucks. The sheep that sit on the jury are clueless. It is already mucked up.

May want to rethink this one.
 

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Well, I said the "Criminal Justice System" and you are referring to a civil claim. But both systems are far from perfect. What I am saying though is that whether the system is good or bad it is what it is and there must be a level playing field and the same rules for everyone. If their was misconduct on the part of the judge, jury or prosecutor then they should also be subject to the same system.
 

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Agreed. Also, if someone was wronged then they should be pardoned. These guys were wronged. They should have been given an award and free ammo for a year.
 

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0000029965 said:
Sorry, I have to disagree with most of you for one reason only. What actually went down and how will always be debatable. These two agents went through the criminal justice system. As imperfect as it may be, if the criminal justice system is not good enough for these two then why is it good enough for you and me? I am not anti-cop or pro drug smuggler but if our system is to have any credibilty at all then it can't be mucked up by having "get out of jail free" cards being tossed around for political reasons.

Well that's the problem with you, and the system.

When evidence is withheld in a court case, justice is perverted. People lose respect for the courts, and it also taints the rest of the justice system, including the Government. They seem to care more about procedure than the truth or justice. The term 'bringing the law into disrepute' comes to mind, which basically translates to 'the people have no trust, confidence or respect in the rule of law'.
Yeah, and here you are making flipant judgements about me to the point where you think you've got a total stranger's "problem" figured out. I suspect that's the same kind of reckless thinking thats brought you to the conclusion that you've got this whole case figured out based on reading a few newspaper stories and hearsay rather than a jury trial in a court of law. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't necessarily mean the process was flawed. Evidence is withheld all the time for very good reasons. Actually this particular case has only strengthened my faith in the system because it proves that nobody is above the law.
 
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