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Discussion Starter #1
First of all I applaud any company willing to bring any EBR (Evil Black Rifle) to the market when there could be a Democrat voted into office next year!

Also many new weapons from reputable companies have had teething problems and recalls when they are first released including the Sig 556 and the XCR. And I expect the Magpul Masada & FN SCAR will also have their own set of problems when released.

Now my MSAR STG556 review:

My father recently purchased one of the black limited addition rifles that comes with the Pelican Case, Knife, 4 mags, & sling. It was one of the early ones which were recalled. before my dad even had a chance to shoot it he got the letter saying to send it back. He sent it out Monday and it was back Wensday with an extra 42 round magazine. Excellent and timely service. My first impression is it looks extremely Bad Ass and the quality is top notch.

When we got to the gun club my dad belongs to, it was sighting in days for deer hunting so we could only load one round at a time. This club isn't really EBR friendly anyways. I know its kinda hard to check reliability when you can only put one round in a mag at a time. We fired 50 rounds of 55 grain Hornady steel case practice ammo and the rifle ejected the case and locked the bolt back every time. Also considering that the rifle only has a 1.5 power scope, we were getting groups of about 1.5 inches at a hundred yards. Pretty good!! The trigger sucks, but I think thats the nature of the beast probably similiar to an original AUG. Next time hopefully I will be able to load up the mags and really put it through the ringer.

I think we should give MSAR a chance to fix the problems they are having, which they seem to be doing, before we start bashing them. So far I am very impressed with the STG556.

Also some people are complaining that the STG556 and AUG parts don't interchange and the demensions are different. Who gives a shit!! My dad doesn't have an AUG to swap them to anyways. I look at this as an evolution of the AUG and as long as the quality continues to improve and the company stands behind their product, I'm just glad that they gave American consumers the opportunity to own an AUG type weapon system.

Steve
 

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First let me that I agree with you in applauding any company attempting to bring an EBR to market.

Next let me say that I have neither owned or handled any of the weapon systems you mentioned, but I am familiar with AR's having owned and shot several.

As far as your review goes, I have a couple of comments...

1) Kudos to MSAR for the quick turn around and extra mag on the recall.

2) If it is not an exact replica of an Aug then there is no excuse for a crummy trigger on a $2K rifle. Design and produce a decent trigger!

3) I agree that most people probably don't care if the parts are swappable with genuine Aug's, however if they ever claimed they were swappable (and I don't know this for a fact, just seen it rumored) then they have a lot of explaining to do, or they really need to clear up the misunderstanding.

Glad you like your MSAR, thanks for the review, and I hope you are happy with it for years to come.
 

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Basically, I have two things to say regarding the AUGalikes--MSAR in particular, since Kent's gun is still an unknown.

One, they aren't working well. This isn't good, but is typical of attempted clones and their ilk. The pioneers take the arrows. Microtech may be able to fix their issues, but nevertheless they have issues and the buyers should be aware of it. Issues the AUG doesn't have.

Two, parts interchangability. I give a shit, skippy. I was hoping we'd have a source of domestic parts to keep existing AUGs up and running. Parts ain't easy for this gun. Instead we don't even get a clone, we get a reverse-engineered lookalike. Not good. Worse, it certainly looks like Microtech did this on purpose to lock customers into being able to buy only their proprietary parts for what is now obviously a proprietary gun. Even if they get the thing to work, this is a failure to us that hoped to keep the AUG a viable rifle out on the range.

Maybe Kent can pull this off. Maybe not. That remains to be seen. However, from an AUG owner's perspective, Microtech fails.
 

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Tenchu,

The MSAR bashing remark is what it will be called if anyone who can't see both sides of the coin and and insists that it is a "perfect" rifle.  Then can't stand that anyone dares mention anything negative about MSAR and/or the STG556.  Look how it turned out with the ARKKOM thread and sigforum if anyone dares question the "true believers".

Firts off, the AUG ain't that great to begin with.  Trigger always have sucked, even w/the trigger tamer.  The AUG A2 scope isn't really tight after it's aged so far.  Brass dings the stock if left unprotected depreciating the gun some what.  I like having mine because it does have that "cool" and as someone else mentioned, "unobtanum" factor.  I got mine a loooong time ago and I thought the price I paid for an A2 was too much.  But then AWB '94 occurred and I saw my little golden egg just grow.  I thought that was great, however it has become a safe queen and I like shooting my guns.

But then try to buy an AUG mag during those years, only now they've come to their pre '94 prices.  My gripe has been why Steyr had to make the AUG mags so damned special?  Of course they came out with the NATO stock to take AR mags. Yet another $400 bucks at first.  I never got one and I understood the mag release sucked.  So then we plunge into these dark ages for the AUG as parts availability dwindled, and the company of course still doing great.  We've only seen a spike in parts availability when US Customs shit canned the AUG's for M4's.  Most customs agents I know didn't care for the AUG, except that it looked exotic and cool.  Until recently, with Steyr getting in hot water w/the US dept. of State making factory AUG parts cost more than it's weight in gold ($150 for a firing pin-yep just like it looks in the MSAR. Skinny, long, and easy to break). Add to that BATF barrel import ban, who's gonna want to shoot their AUG on a regular basis?  

So now I got a pretty cool looking weapon, with propietary mags, it's one and only barrel forever, and every other part will cost more than an average car payment, all that and a trigger that will always suck.  Well at least I can sell it and pay off a few visa cards.  Pete Athen was the only source of AUG parts in the US.  I dealt with him from time to time.  Always extremely knowlegeable about what's new with the AUG's and so on.  Then he joined ship w/Microtech telling us AUG owners we are mostly left on our own with AUG parts, BUT with his new venture with Michrotech the parts God will smile upon us again.  We cheered in delight.

Then came out the first STG 556's.  OK, some initial issues, who hasn't had them in a new rifle, right?  Well, I do remember some 'net rumors about Mr. Marfione's reputation.  I didn't pay much heed to them b/c Pete was there, and he will make it right.  I kept up on the most active forum re: the STG556, ARFKKOM.  I started not to like what I was reading, SPECIFICALLY THE ONE WHERE SOMEONE WHO HAD AN AUG AND AN STG556 SAYING HE COULDN'T GET THE BARREL TO LOCK FROM ONE TO THE OTHER AND THE OTHER RIFLE LEAVING A LARGE GAP BETWEEN THE RECEIVER AND GAS BLOCK FLANGE AND IT APPEARED TO HIM TO LOOK UNSAFE TO FIRE.

So WTF??  I know what Pete told me, "parts will be interchangeable w/the AUG, specially the barrels".  Then MSAR became an ARFKKOM industry partner and all of the sudden several disparaging posts and photos of AUG and STG556's dissapeared.  Add to that that NW_TACTICAL from, you guessed it nw-tactical.com, who happens to sell MSAR accesories, even advertising having some 42 rd MSAR mags, takes over the thread and with a few other dumbasses rips on anyone who would say anything negative about the MSAR and throws out several posts saying "yet another glowing report of the MSAR".  With what?  80 rounds down range?  Tenchu, you know 80 rounds doesn't even scratch the surface when you want to evaluate reliability, AND he even had posted some problems with his own STG, but downplayed the hell out of it.  Not a very objective POV.  Now I'm not here to say the STG is a POS.  Like I said before, they all have growing pains, but please, DO NOT BULLSHIT ME BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MAKE A BUCK! (that's to them, not you).

All that wasn't that led me to post that thread about the MSAR.  What was the kicker was when Pete bailed (or got bailed).  And things mentioned by him and others.  I know I saw "It is what it is" posted on his very own web site before it was gone.  That is also posted in the ARFKKOM thread edited over a previous post around 10/12.

I hope I can get this clear to anyone and everyone:  I had hoped that the STG556 would have prevailed.  I had an interest as an AUG owner to see that they did well because MSAR and Pete knew the need of AUG replacement parts are needed in the US.  So now I sit here and ask, "what the fuck was MSAR thinking".  They aren't Sig than can put out a product and tell it's customers, "take it or leave it.  We will still be in business and therefore those parts will be around for a while".  Or HK, "We are HK, and we hate you because you suck".

So now STG556 owners are 9/10th of the way in being in the same boat, if not worse, to that of AUG owners.  You will be stuck with a rifle, having unique to obtain parts, to include mags.  MSAR internal politics having problems this early on, with a new product, doesn't give much confidence to anyone standing on the fence about this.  VB posted that pretty much on the money how reversed engineering is seldom successful, unless MSAR has alot of capital to pump into this, and on a product that really is unique that happens to look like another product used worldwide.  Regardless of the politics at MSAR, had they made the thing as close to 100% compatible w/the AUG, they'd have alot better chance to make this thing float as we AUG owners continue to sit here with our thumbs up our asses hoping that TPD will come through with that.  So you see, you, and all STG556 owners need to give a shit that the STG556 parts do interchange.  Heck, even that drag queen of the Sig 556 is interchangeable with the 55X's.

I know when something doesn't look right.  In my job I do it all the time!!  And something isn't looking right at MSAR!  Regardless of how quick and smooth their customer service is.  I rather not have to even deal with a company CS department b/c that usually means you need to fix something.

My personal preference will lean towards the XCR as the ultimate battle rifle/carbine.  Although the AUG is the best in the bullpups designs and has won the hearts of many, it hasn't done so overwhelmingly.  And I don't predict the AUG will.  The newer XCR will gain far more ground than will an AUG in the same situation.  Only time will tell, right?  Maybe the next generation of bullpups will.


Edited to add:

I've also heard how some are saying, "the STG556 isn't an AUG", and "the STG556 is an improvement over the AUG".  The STG is a near duplication of a hard to duplicate weapon.  It looks like one, apparently shoots like one (except for the multiple failures being reported), and most of everything is in the same exact spot as an AUG.  Just b/c MSAR slapped an AR foward assist on the side and some way to attach rails which weren't available 'back then' doesn't all of the sudden make it a 'revolutionary' design and a totally different weapon.  I can't see how anyone can be fooled, but apparently some are.  To me it's an AUG copy.

And for those who have STG556's, I'm not here to bash you guys at all.  You guys are the true pioneers to see if something will work out or not.  I've done the same, my most recent was with a Cohaire sold through Vector MP5/40 clone.  I even knew Todd's reputation, and by a large margin, shady business like manners compared to that of Marfione, before I got the thing.  It did look cool.... from 6 feet away.  I posted an extensive report about it on acH und Kay-pro.com.  It was a hoot to shoot, accurate, and a total POS with some sort of jam every 3 to 4 mags, at least!  Vector also has great CS.  After about 1500 rounds they sent me a new trigger box after the first one, plastic, basically dissentigrated.  After about 3000 rounds the dimples on the receiver were too much.  Vector gave me a new MP5/40.  I fired a few 100 rounds through it and sold it.  Before I bought it I knew of Vector's great CS and great warranty.  That helped.  But Vector also makes other firearms.  Ask me if I'll ever buy anything with Todd Bailey's name* on it again. (*which are numerous)  So you see, let's see how the STG556 fares after several 1000 rounds.  Now that ammo isn't cheap it might take a while.

It may turn out to be a great rifle and last many rounds. But I still doubt MSAR will. Does anyone remember Cannondale's venture into dirt bikes and ATV's? They were very bad ass and truly revolutionary to the point the big 4, Bombadier (Can-Am now), Polaris very quickly adopted what they did which was long over due with EFI in quads. And Cannondale had their stuff wired tight before this big venture, yet they only made them for a few years. Those Cannondale quads can still kick ass with the current ones of other makes. But ask anyone who owns one about having to own one.
 
 

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On another note:

I wish I could post on ARFKKOM and tell that NW_TACTICAL why doesn't he STFU and just stay on his 'Industry Partner' site and quit trying so hard to convince everyone else that MSAR and the STG556 is the best EVVARRR! And then bash the crap out of anyone else who don't agree with him, to include other STG556 owners reporting problems.

B/c of stuff like that is why I'll never buy anything from his company. I wish I could directly tell him that, but I got booted from ARFKKOM for doing the very same thing and refuse to troll or beg Ed Sr. to be 'unlocked'.

I'd like to ask Alex how much does one have to pay to be an 'industry partner" on ARFKKOM. I also notice he doesn't get into posting with them too much. I guess the XCR will speak for itself. BTW, I never had to call RA CS for anything. 1600 rounds and counting.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i303

I guess I can understand how you and other AUG owners would be dissapointed that parts didn't interchange. I was looking at it from the point of view of not needing replacement parts for an older weapon.
 

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These guns dont work well. EVery single forum has posters who seem to rave about how great it is right up until it stopped working.

Pass. These guns are junk until I hear of a few going 5000 rounds without choking, or surviving a carbine class.

Improved AUG my ass. Like Hesse is an improved Colt

This is some basement effort to build an AUG only these MSAR people had neither the people, process, technology and money to get it right.

Like I303 said, the AUG wasnt a "great" weapon to begin with. Some knock-off look alike is even less

The STG556 like the SIG556 is highly protected because there are people that have a large commercial interest in seeing positive free press fuel sales, so whenever anyone comes out against they get banned or silenced. That's gotta tell you something right there.
 

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Pass. These guns are junk until I hear of a few going 5000 rounds without choking, or surviving a carbine class.
Yeah... VB is internet testing these rifles... in his internet lab. Until he "hears" of a few running hard... they have failed his personal internet test, and are pure junk. The awesome VB, best internet tester EVAR!
 

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Pass. These guns are junk until I hear of a few going 5000 rounds without choking, or surviving a carbine class.
Yeah... VB is internet testing these rifles... in his internet lab. Until he "hears" of a few running hard... they have failed his personal internet test, and are pure junk. The awesome VB, best internet tester EVAR!
Slag and his elementary school reasoning skills. You might be the only person that thinks everyone should eat rat poison to realize its toxic and prove it doesnt taste like berry muffins.
 

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Slag and his elementary school reasoning skills. You might be the only person that thinks everyone should eat rat poison to realize its toxic and prove it doesnt taste like berry muffins.
Nope... but internet testing the AXR AUG... and proclaiming it a POS... before a single example has even shipped... dang... your the best internet tester EVAR!
 

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Why can't we all just... get along :D

Seriously though, whats the point of arguing, lets just wait and see what happens. The good rifles will survive, the bad will not; thats the marketplace.
 

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I am almost ready to throw my hands in the air on this one.

Guys the MSAR is a good rifle, I have one, I shoot it, and it works just fine.

I am going to post another range report at 1,000 rounds. I am half way there and everything has been smooth. One small issue was a recoil buffer slid off (my fault for playing with it) and it slipped right back on, no issues.

When I called Microtech to ask them about the buffer I spoke to Keith, he explained it, it was over.

Customer Service? No problem.

We have been over this before but I will say it again: "Rant on"

Sigarms/Sigsauer could not deliver on a 551. Had I bought the 556 I would have got a rifle, which in MY opinion sucks and before it happens, YES I HAVE SHOT ONE. It would have cost me approx 1300 bucks and I would have been disappointed to say the least. It bears little, if any, resemblance to the 551 and I do not care if it takes AR-15 mags I wanted a 551, rocker mags and all! RE: Time time has come.

For 700 bucks more I got what I wanted. A gun that looks exactly like a rifle I have always wanted. In addition I got a knife (YES IT CUTS THINGS!), four mags, Pelican Case, and sling (I admit I do not know how to put it together). So instead of canted rails, two tone looks, and a really lovely "cheese grating" hand guard, SOME people had to send their rifle back, again not me.

"Rant Off"

We now return you to your regularly scheduled XCR love fest :) (I have 1000 rounds down range and counting)
 

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STG-556 range reports continue to be by far positive. MSAR stumbled on the first 156 rifles... and did the right thing... fixed them all on their dime... with 1 week turn around. The American Aug has arrived...
 

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STG-556 range reports continue to be by far positive. MSAR stumbled on the first 156 rifles... and did the right thing... fixed them all on their dime... with 1 week turn around. The American Aug has arrived...
Eh!?! Notsofast Slag.

There are multiple AND different STG556 failures, not just the first 156. There will more failures, apparently alot more. The jury is still in deliberation whether this will float or sink.

As much as I'd love to, unfortunately I cannot say who told me this. Let's just say it is from an extremely reliable source. I was told you will hear about it soon. For those who have an MSAR, you aren't going to like what he told me.

Well, at least we have TPD still to look foward to.
 

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Eh!?! Notsofast Slag.

There are multiple AND different STG556 failures, not just the first 156. There will more failures, apparently alot more. The jury is still in deliberation whether this will float or sink.

As much as I'd love to, unfortunately I cannot say who told me this. Let's just say it is from an extremely reliable source. I was told you will hear about it soon. For those who have an MSAR, you aren't going to like what he told me.
I guess yours isn't running? Have you spoke to Tony about it? Oh yeah... you don't own one... your just internet testing the STG-556... you and your bud VB... firing round after internet round... :D

And the vast majority of folks that have them running fine... their all just mistaken, eh? Have you informed them their running rifles aren't really running? Oh yeah... there is a big conspiracy over on ar15.com .... that's right... you ever hear of occam's razor?

Then there is sterling99, tenchu74, and myself... we haven't had any failures either... must be something wrong with our rifles... they haven't busted yet! But then again... I don't think we have had them to the internet range for internet testing...

Good to see that Kent at least set you straight on the AXR... Good ol' Kent really called you on your BS straight up... thats for sure! How did that humble pie taste? Kent sure dished out a big slice to ya!

Then there is this mystery man... sworn you to secrecy... do you think if we pinky swear you can tell me? What say? Best save some room for the rest of that humble pie :D
 

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Eh!?! Notsofast Slag.

There are multiple AND different STG556 failures, not just the first 156. There will more failures, apparently alot more. The jury is still in deliberation whether this will float or sink.

As much as I'd love to, unfortunately I cannot say who told me this. Let's just say it is from an extremely reliable source. I was told you will hear about it soon. For those who have an MSAR, you aren't going to like what he told me.
I guess yours isn't running? Have you spoke to Tony about it? Oh yeah... you don't own one... your just internet testing the STG-556... you and your bud VB... firing round after internet round... :D

And the vast majority of folks that have them running fine... their all just mistaken, eh? Have you informed them their running rifles aren't really running? Oh yeah... there is a big conspiracy over on ar15.com .... that's right... you ever hear of occam's razor?

Then there is sterling99, tenchu74, and myself... we haven't had any failures either... must be something wrong with our rifles... they haven't busted yet! But then again... I don't think we have had them to the internet range for internet testing...

Good to see that Kent at least set you straight on the AXR... Good ol' Kent really called you on your BS straight up... thats for sure! How did that humble pie taste? Kent sure dished out a big slice to ya!

Then there is this mystery man... sworn you to secrecy... do you think if we pinky swear you can tell me? What say? Best save some room for the rest of that humble pie :D
That's right Slag, I don't own one.

Say whatever you want to say. And how and what did Kent set me straight on? Care to elaborate as to what I ever said about the AXR?

All I have to say about what I was told, exact word were, "people that got the (STG)556 are not going to like to hear the bad news. And it isn't about the rifle".....

And no, I won't tell you who told me. You will find out SOON.

Hint, there is a reason you can ONLY talk to Tony.

If your open posting didn't come accross as to an ass you are, I might have pm'd you what else he told me.

Humble pie is best served cold. Hope you buy enough extra parts for that gun :)
 

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STG-556 range reports continue to be by far positive. MSAR stumbled on the first 156 rifles... and did the right thing... fixed them all on their dime... with 1 week turn around. The American Aug has arrived...
Eh!?! Notsofast Slag.

There are multiple AND different STG556 failures, not just the first 156. There will more failures, apparently alot more. The jury is still in deliberation whether this will float or sink.

As much as I'd love to, unfortunately I cannot say who told me this. Let's just say it is from an extremely reliable source. I was told you will hear about it soon. For those who have an MSAR, you aren't going to like what he told me.

Well, at least we have TPD still to look foward to.
You know I remember this tactic, was it high school?

"I heard from someone that joey likes you, but I can not tell you who, I promised not to tell"

Sounds like a bunch of high school girls!

I303 do you own a MSAR? For that matter does this source of yours own one?

If they have I would like for you or them to put up or shut up. I have one and it functions fine north of 500 rounds. You are seeing my posts right? I am not taking crazy pills here?

worst possible scenario MSAR closes it's doors and says FU to all the people who ponied up 2000 bucks to buy one of these things. Lawsuits, nasty words, drama ensue. That is the extent of my "Unhappiness"

After speaking with people in the company and seeing how they have reacted to problems, I highly doubt that is going to happen. If it does I have been wrong before, let this be the last time.

The point is that please do not start with this "I heard from this person who is an expert that the rifle is a POS" let them come here and tell their story.

Do not hide behind a veil of anonymity.
l
 

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STG-556... they just don't run... oh teh noes! Conspiracy on ar15.com... oh teh noes! I heard some insider dope... folks is going to freak... oh teh noes! Pete left MSAR... oh the noes! Talking crap about the AXR... eating humble pie.. oh the noes!

oh yeah... you don't even own a STG-556.. yet start the thread "Let me BASH and TRASH the STG556 and MSAR. By i303"... and then speak to me about being an ass? Pot meet Kettle...

Bunch of freakin drama queen internet testing experts... so I'm calling you for what it is... :bs:
 

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Well then look in the mirror when you say "Drama Queen".


B/C YOU spent that much money on a gun, I supposed that would make YOU the resident expert and therefore NO ONE can dare say anything to the contrary.

How is it in that imaginary world you live in Slag? B/C in the real world one wouldn't go far as thin skinned as you are.

I'm done with this subject.
 
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