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Discussion Starter #1
I just picked up a new XCR, and I must say I'm impressed. AR ergonomics and accessories, AK heart and soul.

Mini-Review, pointless on xcrforum.com I know, but I can help it:

The Good:

1. Charging Handle in Correct Place.
2. Charging Handle in Correct Place.
3. Charging Handle in Correct Place. (Note, I like where the charging handle is.)
4. Designed for a folder from the ground up.
5. Switch Caliber.
6. Any sights I want.
7. Monolithic.
8. Nice bolt release.
9. Takes AR boytoys.
10. Magpul Maglevel = worky.
11. AK innards, complete with piston.
12. Adjustable gas.
13. Replaceable shell deflector.
14. Operating lever only turns 60deg, which is nice.
15. Good machine work throughout.
16. Forward Assist.

The Bad, IMHO:

1. The charging handle is aluminum. I worry about breaking it.
2. The bolt stop itself within the gun looks like it came out of a McDonalds toy, not a $1500 gun. Can anyone say Parkerized Tool Steel?
3. The trigger hurts me. A lot. It was 17lbs, 4 ounces.
4. I would rather have an AR style captive pin up front than the pull a circlip out.
5. I don't like the type of clip that is used for the hammer pin. It seems like it might be a liability in combat.
6. The gas tube and bolt release shelf rattle. :-(

I was so in love with the rifle, and so disturbed at the trigger, I broke down and did a trigger job on it.

Never do this yourself unless you know exactly what you are doing, btw. I've done it almost 100 times, and have a ton of reference materials and tools to do it. M14, AR15, 1911, HK, AK,....a trigger is a trigger is a trigger.

Looking at the trigger, there were a bunch of things not conducive to a good trigger pull. First, the trigger portion of the trigger job was unworked in any way. This is odd because the hammer hook looked like it had been finished some. The trigger was just a casting with the angle on it for the hammer hook.

While this angle perfectly matched the angle on the hammer (not common), this angle was at odds with the axis of rotation of the trigger/hammer assembly. This forces the rifle to draw the hammer back as the trigger is pulled, raising the trigger pull weight substantially during the first stage.

On the one hand, this is a good safety feature. The negative angle draws the trigger into the pocket created by the hammer hook, virtually ensuring that you won't fire unintentionally if you happen to hold the trigger very near the area where the disconnecter engages and the trigger hooks come into play.

The XCR's disconnecter disconnects the hammer very far from the edge of the triggers engagement, so this isn't much of a problem unless you shorten the hammer hook or trigger ledge unduly. I don't think I'll have a problem here.

At any rate, back to the meat of it. I matched the angles on the trigger ledge and hammer hook to be at 90" degrees of axial rotation and in full contact. It took 1.5 hours of stoning and checking.

Afterwards, the trigger pull is now a two stage 4.5lbs, and feels so much nicer. It still has some roughness due to a lot of finish and such on the moving surfaces around the pins, but with time that will wear in and become less of an issue.

The rifle passed all cold safety checks (safety on/no fire, disconnector/no hammer follow, hard buttstock slam 20x/no hammer follow, safety change/no fire).

Time to see how it goes at the range tomorrow. :)
 

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sounds good! let us know what you think about your range time!

make sure you run it wet and on gas 4 too. you'll like the rifle even more after you get to go to a lower gas setting after the break in period ;D
 

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I'm sure not all XCRs have triggers that bad. Mine sure doesn't. Maybe 7-8lbs, which is ok for this sort of a rifle, though not great.

I've seen worse, as has any HK91 owner from the '80s and '90s. Some particular specimens of the XCR may very well have very bad triggers. It happens. The OP has a fix, which is pretty cool. Now, Alex just needs his version of HK's PSG1 drop-in trigger group. Then all with be right with the world!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Mine was that bad, according to my digital scale. It had to draw back the hammer 1/8 of an inch every time you pulled the trigger. The first time around, I thought the safety was on.

However, that may not be indicative of all XCR's The trigger pull is great now, though.

The range trip was good. 150 rounds on 4, no malfunctions even with wolf.
 

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Someone else posted a note on Sigforum or Arfkom a while ago about another trigger mode for the XCR that involved bending one of the springs in the trigger group at about a 30 degree angle. Does anybody remember that or better yet tried it. It looked like something I could try, whereas I would never trust myself with a stone and trigger parts.
 

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I have ordered my SBR XCR from RA with the set screw installed in the trigger mechanism, which apparently reduces trigger travel, and take up. This is similar to what our friend Bill Springfield is doing [email protected] with his trigger job, but not to the same extent. When it arrives I will post a report as to exactly how it changes the trigger pull/weight.
 

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I have ordered my SBR XCR from RA with the set screw installed in the trigger mechanism, which apparently reduces trigger travel, and take up. This is similar to what our friend Bill Springfield is doing [email protected] with his trigger job, but not to the same extent. When it arrives I will post a report as to exactly how it changes the trigger pull/weight.
Please do, because I am hesitant to order a rifle with a trigger so bad that it needs to be worked on straight out of the box.
 

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dsl987,

I don't think that the trigger is so bad it should stop you buying such a weapons system. We must remember that this firearms was designed and manufactured as a combat style weapon, not a high end target style of firearm with a match trigger. This is a combat weapon, and combat weapons have heavy triggers by design.

The fact that we have all shot firearms with "improved" style triggers which have either been made, or modified, with light smooth match style triggers pushes us to seek better triggers from our beloved firearms. If you look at some of the trigger modification parts and modifications, it will clearly state that they are not suitable for weapons that will be use for combat, or personal protection.

In essence, it is my belief that manufacturers could if they wanted, make these triggers better. The cost of initially developing two styles of a trigger system, one for combat shooting and another for match type shooting, is not cost effective or required. Robinson Armament is working on a lighter single stage trigger, but they are so busy producing this increadable firearm for people who are waiting for delivery of their combat rifle, they have to put this type of "improvement" on the back burner.

The modification done by Bill, at [email protected] is not only an extremely cheap modification at $49.00, but to all reports a very good one. I have ordered my SBR XCR in order to evaluate this small modification for my customers, and report to you all the benifit/drawback of this "removeable" type of trigger enhancement.

My message: Don't wait to buy this incredible weapon based on something so small as heavy combat trigger. If you don't like the trigger, get it fixed to suit yourself. It's probably just as cost effective for you to have it modified this way as it would to have a "match trigger" installed at the factory.

You won't be disappointed!
 

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I'll say this again: the trigger in my XCR and two I've examined haven't been THAT bad. They're about typical of military rifles, 8lbs give or take. Don't compare them to ARs. AR15 typically have abnormally good triggers for a military rifle. HKs in their day were far worse than the XCR. It compares rather well to AUGs, FALs, AKs, FNCs, and the like.

If you want an XCR I would not let the trigger put you off. Get it, shoot it and see where it is. Shoot it a LOT. They clean up quite a bit with use. Then after about a case of ammo, see what you think. If it still bugs you, then it's time to think about fiddling with it or shipping it off to be reworked. Hopefully, by that time RA will have the match trigger out and that should cure the varmint hunters of their itch for a good trigger.

And a caveat. When HKs were all the rage (and you could actually buy them in a gunshop...imagine that!), they had truly excreable triggers. There were a number of people reworking them and selling assorted parts and even drop in trigger groups to cure this. Many of them did NOT stand up to a lot of use. Actually, amost none of them did. Williams did a really good trigger, but even they'd have issues after high round counts. The PSG1 trigger group seemed to be the energizer bunny of the lot. Those just kept going and going and going without issues. Most others couldn't say that.

Remember those pioneers...
 

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It's not just the trigger that I'm waiting on, because I still want to see this new stock that Alex has mentioned. (Note to Alex - still waiting on those pictures).

Sloan441: The XCR is supposed to be an upgraded AR, so I don't see why we can't have the abnormally good trigger that comes with most AR's. I don't expect a match trigger to come standard on a weapon of this type, but a half-way decent one doesn't seem too much to ask when I can buy a Bushmaster for $500 less.
 

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1. Charging Handle in Correct Place.
2. Charging Handle in Correct Place.
3. Charging Handle in Correct Place. (Note, I like where the charging handle is.)
4. Designed for a folder from the ground up.
The Bad, IMHO:

3. The trigger hurts me. A lot. It was 17lbs, 4 ounces.
1,2,3,4 yes I agree, and 3, ??WTF??? I thought the XCR came with a nice 2 stage trigger??? If not, I don't think I can pay $1500+ for a gun with a sh!tty trigger... I already have an $1100 DPMS with a crappy trigger...
 

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I bent the legs on the hammer spring on a total of 3 XCRs and it worked well on all 3 with never a problem. A very cheap and easy fix. I just wish I would have gauged the before and after.
 

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I think anyone would agree that a rifle with a 17lb + trigger should have been sent back to the shop for some work. As perviously stated:

I don't think that the trigger is so bad it should stop you buying such a weapons system. We must remember that this firearms was designed and manufactured as a combat style weapon, not a high end target style of firearm with a match trigger. This is a combat weapon, and combat weapons have heavy triggers by design.
Martens, can you post a photo of the hammer spring for comparison? If you were sent another spring, would it be easy to take some comparison shots? What effect did it have on the trigger, and how did it effect it if you know?

Thanks
 
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Vectorsc,
The XCR really need 300-400 to be considered broken in. The trigger on mine has smoothed out considerably over time. at about 300+ rounds it feeld like a rack grade 5lb pull. nothing special. I did a quick job on mine too as it was unacceptable out of the box, but one should wait unitl after the breakin period to do this IMHO jsut due to the way things settle in.
 

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One thing I had to do on my trigger is pull with the middle part of my finger where I have more leverage. I would normally use the tip as I do on all of my other guns. I cannot control the two-stage without the extra leverage ~ I did not even know it was a two-stage trigger until I had 500rds into it. Still love the gun but disappointed about the trigger.
 

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I agree that you should go ahead and buy an XCR. the trigger can be worked on later if need be. Alex is apparently comming out with some single stage triggers, they used to offer them anyway so I don't see why it should take too long. also there is a rumor of a single stage match type trigger comming out early next year so there may be factory alternatives if you don't want to go private. Hopefully it will be around 3.5-4.5 lbs with a nice short reset to allow fast 3gun shooting.

I bought an XCR and love it. My wife initially took it over and shot it until it went off for recall, now she prefers her FS2000. The FS2000 trigger is heavy but smooth and consistant. I moved to an AR15 with a Timney trigger and LWRC upper to use in competition, until the XCR trigger issues are resolved. Then I will revert to the XCR. I also want to get the 6.5 kit when it's released and possibly the .308 rifle.

The odd thing with ours is that the trigger had a lovely two stage until it went in for the recall. when it came back it was awful. I took it out and noticed that the casting markes are on the action surfaced. It's been worked on a little but to be honest I lost patience and figured I'd wait for Alex to come out with a factory solution. Meantime the money is getting spent on the AR.

Other than the trigger it's one of the best rifle options out there. Hey Alex, can a Timney trigger be modified to fit in the rifle?
 

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As an update to you all, I just spoke with our engineers, and the initial design for the new trigger is just about complete. Next step is the prototype being built, testing, and then hopefully expedited production.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Like I said, the trigger on the XCR is safe, if nothing else. And my trigger is GREAT now. :) But I couldn't promise you that it's safe. This is a range gun only until it really proves itself, and I wouldn't sell it with this trigger in it. I'll end up buying their match trigger when it comes out.

Besides, other than the stock trigger, the XCR is awesome. :) It's now my favorite rifle, and when you have spent $5000 on a gun before to make it everything you ever wanted, having a rifle come in and equal your penultimate custom gun....nuff said.
 
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