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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to a Maryland Shooters Forum shoot today and I had to bring my XCR.

Everyone was impressed by the XCR in fact my buddy Jeepdriver from the SigForum was loving the mine so much he's ready to drink the Koolaide.

I put about 200 rounds of Remington UMC 55 grain down range and Jeepdriver had a can of Wolf 62 grain and offered me as much as I wanted to shoot. My XCR has been set on gas setting 2 since the 300 round break in and has NEVER had a hickup.

Well it don't like Wolf at All....That is until I changed the Gas setting to 4 and it ate 200 rounds without a hitch.

I'm not sure I will go and buy a shit load of Wolf but I can shoot it if I have to.

I will Post a few Pics in the GALLERY
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's true... My XCR has over 700 rounds thru it and the Wolf is the only thing that has stopped it. I won't be buying any.
 

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That's true... My XCR has over 700 rounds thru it and the Wolf is the only thing that has stopped it. I won't be buying any.
for goodness sake why not? Just move your gas setting and save money on ammo! I actually bought some Brown Bear that was even cheaper than Wolf, but I haven't shot any yet.
 

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Yeah, the XCR definitely shoots much better with hot ammo. Wolf is doable, but not usually until after the break in is over. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to who have had trouble breaking in their guns. Almost every time, it is the wolf ammo causing the firing problems.
 

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I've had my XCR for over a year now and it eats wolf on setting 2 just fine... every once in a while I get a short throw casing, but thats all... I think this rifle gets better w/ round count anyway..
 

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In some weapons, especially ones without the chrome lined chamber, I have heard of the laquer coating on the Wolf casings leaving a sticky residue behind during the hot firing.

Then when switching back to brass cased ammo, spent casing fails to eject by getting stuck on the tacky residue left by the Wolf.

So far the consensus seems to be; don't use Wolf until after the break-in, and then only after making sure your gas setting is on #4.

Anyone with more experience using Wolf in the XCR, please speak up. Let us know how yours did. Sure would be nice to use the cheap stuff for practice, if it won't hurt the gun. 8)
 

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I used WOLF 62gr. stuff. I brought out seven 30 round mags. I wanted to know how well it would work. The last time I went out it was not good. I had so many FTE's that I gave up counting them. And I started to wonder if their would be any problems when the 762x39 kit come out. I bought the rifle used, it was clean. I used it once and cleaned it. Then I put about 7-800 rds through it with no cleaning and no problems. But I used all brass cased ammo. This time I used WOLF (for $$$ reasons). From the word go I had problems. So I did a quick field cleaning it helped somewhat. During this whole ordeal I would used some brass ammo (IMI, UMC, PMP) not one FTE. I changed the gas setting to 1,to 2, to 3, and 4, alway the same thing. The bolt would get stuck to the point that I could not used the charging handle to pull it out. I had to pry the bolt loose with a flathead screwdriver and then I could use the handle. So when I got home I gave it a cleaning like I would clean an AR. So yesterday I went out to shoot my XCR. Again I brought out seven 30 round mags. This time I got the 4th mag, the the same thing happend, (gas setting 3). But I did notice something, it only happens during slow fire. Because I was sighting in my reflex sight at the time. When the round sat in the chamber for a while, that is when I get the FTE. The 4th and 5th mags had this problem. My 6th mag I did some more rapid fire and no problems. My 7th and last mag was all slow fire. (In fact the round sat in the chamber even longer because I was looking for other targets to shoot at. (I was the only person there, and lots of boxes and jugs to shoot at) and not one problem.

I don't know what to make of it. At first I thought maybe it was just dirty. It was that. Then I thought well maybe the poly coating was melting off and getting everything sticky. But if that was the case wouldn't I have had more problems in mag # 7 as apposed to mags 4 and 5 (not all of mag # 5 gave me problems. I had really about a mag and a half of problems.) Maybe its the mag, but I don't know how. I had 3 mags made by NHMTG, 3 by Imperial Defense (England), and 1 by Okay Industries. The two problem mags 1 Imperial Defense and 1 NHMTG. With the English mag being the worst.

Like I said this makes me worry about the 762x39 kit. Because one the reason for it is the coast of ammo. And who has the cheapest ammo WOLF and Barnaul. I have not used Barnaul yet.

ANY thoughts or ideas. I have posted me with my favorite toy on the XCR thread. :D
 

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When I checked out my trigger job Bill Springfield did for me today all I had is Wolf 55gr Ball. Never a hickup it ate 100 rounds. Not a tite a group as my hand loads, but shot good.
 

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Two things come up here:

XCR Design and Wolf Ammo

Wolf Gold is better than their steel cased rubbish. The steel cased ammo is relatively low velocity and that means reduced pressure.

The XCR has a long stroke gas system with a relatively heavy operating rod and this requires more pressure to operate. The benefit is that once the assembly is moving it has sufficient momentum to clear through debris or much and keep working. It just nbeeds a bit more of a push than some other rifles, and that's why an adjustable gas system is so important on a gas operated semi auto rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
All I can say is I fired roughly 250 rounds of Remingtom 55 grain UMC that day then I tried the 62 grain Wolf and had to put the Gas setting on 4 to get it to cycle it. I have over 700 rounds thru my XCR so the break in is over.

I also noticed that when I cleaned my XCR the patches kept coming out with a blue / green residue.

Is that from the funky shell casings of the Wolf Ammo ?

BTW . I just bought 1000 Rounds of Remington UMC for 5.99 per box of 20.
 

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Blue/green is copper reacting/dissolving in the Hoppes. Its a good thing, and should happen with any copper jacketed ammo, and should happen especially after the bore has soaked for a few minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I never noticed Blue/Green residue before...

I guess she's squeeky clean now. ;D
 

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Steel cased ammo isn't rubbish, it is here to stay, and will likely be more prevalent as time passes with the metals market the way it is now.

Try some silver bear ammo. About the same price as wolf, with nickle coating instead of laquer or plastic coating. It shouldn't stick.

Wolf steel cased ammo will stick to the chamber once enough hot gooey laquer or plastic residue melts off into it. Simple as that. Know this, and keep the chamber cycling, or shoot more slowly as to not heat up your gun. I have had this happen only once in my AR15, and that was from rapid shooting 90 rounds or so, and since then I have figured this out and not had any problems in any of my wolf ammo used guns.

Coated casings need to be given attention, it is as simple as that.
 

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Steel cased ammo isn't rubbish, it is here to stay, and will likely be more prevalent as time passes with the metals market the way it is now.

Try some silver bear ammo. About the same price as wolf, with nickle coating instead of laquer or plastic coating. It shouldn't stick.

Wolf steel cased ammo will stick to the chamber once enough hot gooey laquer or plastic residue melts off into it. Simple as that. Know this, and keep the chamber cycling, or shoot more slowly as to not heat up your gun. I have had this happen only once in my AR15, and that was from rapid shooting 90 rounds or so, and since then I have figured this out and not had any problems in any of my wolf ammo used guns.

Coated casings need to be given attention, it is as simple as that.
Agreed... nice summary.
 

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I've heated Wolf cases with a blowtorch, and scraped them with a screwdriver while red hot. I've dumped 150 rounds through my VEPR as fast as I could pull and change mags, melting the handguard in the process. I let the last round sit in the chamber.

I've yet to get any Lacquer off of a Wolf steel case.

Still, I prefer the silver bear zinc plated steel cases. They seem to have more lubricity to them than the lacquer or poly coated steel, in the bit of shooting I've done with them so far. Only downside as far as I can see is that they are not reloadable.

I'd guess that the Soviets produced far more ammo than we ever did.. probably by orders of magnitude. As a result, I'd guess that steel cased ammo is the most prevelant variety in the world. Here to stay... yes. Yes it is. The question is whether brass is here to stay.

It wouldn't surprise me if one day we are all buying ammo with cases that are majority polymer construction, much like shotgun shells.
 

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I've heated Wolf cases with a blowtorch, and scraped them with a screwdriver while red hot. I've dumped 150 rounds through my VEPR as fast as I could pull and change mags, melting the handguard in the process. I let the last round sit in the chamber.

I've yet to get any Lacquer off of a Wolf steel case.

Still, I prefer the silver bear zinc plated steel cases. They seem to have more lubricity to them than the lacquer or poly coated steel, in the bit of shooting I've done with them so far. Only downside as far as I can see is that they are not reloadable.

I'd guess that the Soviets produced far more ammo than we ever did.. probably by orders of magnitude. As a result, I'd guess that steel cased ammo is the most prevelant variety in the world. Here to stay... yes. Yes it is. The question is whether brass is here to stay.

It wouldn't surprise me if one day we are all buying ammo with cases that are majority polymer construction, much like shotgun shells.
There is no lubrication quality to the poly or laquer coating, in fact, it would be the opposite. The coatings function as corrosion protection for the steel case.

Every time I fire wolf ammo, I can see little bits of red (poly) flakes all over the chamber and action, and it was gummed up between the case and chamber in the one fte incident I had with my ar15 bushy.
 

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The red flakes come from the red water sealant that is placed around the primer, and sometimes around the bullet/case mouth, and they easily come off each time a round is fired. The red sealant is used on the primers of Silver bear as well. They do get all over the action, but I have a hard time seeing how they would induce any malfunctions... They don't seem to have any real substance to them.
 
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