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New member, sincere question

5937 Views 57 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  razai, 
R
I'm a regular on a couple of other gun boards but new here (though I've lurked since this forum was built). I'll most likely be buying an XCR within the next two weeks and have a question. I've followed the XCR since it was first announced and like everything I've read. I have yet to hold an XCR but I like it on paper and I can sift through the netspeak well enough by now to know that the vast majority of the reviews are favorable. My concern, if it can be called a concern, deals mostly with the refusal of my local dealers to stock the rifles. I know from asking them them that this is not an issue with the rifle itself, but rather out of frustration in not being able to get their orders filled in a timely manner. I know that RA is a smaller operation but some of these dealers have been unable to get rifles for over a year, while I read about Utah dealers who have multiples on their shelves. I'm leary of buying anything I haven't held, so my question is why can't we get a specimen here in Arizona? The Phoenix valley area dealers listed on the RA website as stocking dealers do not in fact order from or carry RA products any longer (per calls to them earlier today.) We have an enormous shooting population and Phoenix is the fifth largest US city, so shouldn't there be a greater push to get rifles into the state?
I'm a big fan of RA's innovation and owned one of the very first M96 Recon Carbines to arrive in AZ. It's actually because of the M96's "death" that I can see how much further along RA is with the XCR, so I don't share the fears of many that this rifle too will be soon forgotten. The recently posted spare parts list is a big deal to me, for example. The multiple barrels and calibers are actually being realized now. All good things. I'd have one of these already if one could be found in southern Arizona.

Does anyone know why it has been so difficult for AZ dealers to get these rifles? If there are multiples to be found elsewhere, it has to involve more than just "a shortage due to demand." Terra recently posted a "you must buy more!" thread, so again...why isn't RA doing more to get these rifles into Arizona so we can do just that?

Lastly, will RA be represented at the SAR show this year in Phoenix?

This is a good forum and I know many of you by your posts on other boards. Thanks for your thoughts and perspectives on this and safe shooting.
-Kyle
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V
I can speak to my buying experience.

My local dealer was listed on RA's site, so I stopped by to see if he stocked them. He is not a dealer I usually use and I don't know him. Anyway, turns out he sold the M96 back in the day, but had not dealt with RA recently.

While I was in the shop he call RA to get prices for me, but had to fax in an FFL. He took down my information and said he's get back to me once he got the information from RA. I guess with the M96 RA set him a whole packet of info and he was expecting the same thing for the XCR. That was the last I heard from the guy. I never call or went back since I figured based on some of his other prices I'd be getting screwed anyway.

So I then called my favorite FFL and asked if he could get an XCR even though he did not deal with RA. He was able to get pricing for me in a few days and we had a deal.

He did have a few complaints about the process of dealing with RA.

They asked for the FFL on three separate occasions. A mistake here could end it for RA, so I understand the need to be certain, but three times was a hassle for my FFL and it makes you wonder what is happening to the paperwork.

My FFL had to pre-pay. Not before shipping, but to secure the order. So my rifle was paid for 8 weeks before shipping. I can understand prepaying a few weeks before shipping, but not at the time of order when the backlog was quoted at 6 week. The price I was quoted did not include tying up capital for so long, but my FFL did not complain. I just felt bad and actually sent the FFL a check. (he refused to cash it until the transfer)

The rifle did not ship when they said it would ship. It went out a week late with no explanation.


So overall a few minor issues, but I can see how for some guys it is not worth it when ARs are selling well and capital for stock is tight.

I'd have to say the RA is working hard on customer services and it certainly shows on the forum.
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R
Re: New memeber, sincere question

Thank you for that reply. That's pretty much what one of my dealers told me. I know RA is working on CS because when I call them now and in the past they have always answered and acted like my call was the only one that mattered. I'd just really like to handle a rifle before buying one and as of yet I can't find a single XCR in the Phoenix area or even within a 1-2 hour drive of my home. It does concern me. If a dealer can't get a rifle or two, then how much attention will I get as an owner? Like I said, it's my one and only concern.
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SigsRule
Re: New memeber, sincere question

That's the price you pay for getting in on the ground floor of a great new product.
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blukownaz
Re: New memeber, sincere question

I'm in Tucson. 2 XCRs in the safe.

Is that close enough?
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admin
Re: New memeber, sincere question

blukownaz said:
I'm in Tucson. 2 XCRs in the safe.

Is that close enough?
Click to expand...
Is that an offer for razai to come and try out your XCRs? ;)
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R
Re: New memeber, sincere question

SigsRule, I agree, but like I said...I bought one of the very first M96s that entered AZ. I'm a bit of a beta tester. But, I bought that rifle because it was on the shelf at my local dealer's shop. The XCR is a much grander production and I ought to be able to get one locally, no? Blukownaz, Tucson would not be too far to drive to buy a rifle, no, but it is a bit of a drive to merely see one. If you should decide that you really don't need two, though... ;)
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Aussie Arms
Re: New memeber, sincere question

razai,

I totally understand your concerns, and I appreciate you wnting to put hands on a rifle before shelling out the green for one. As a dealer I buy the XCR in to order because basically they are not an item most dealers can keep on the shelf. I order to my customer's needs, and being a modular rifle, with so many options it's hard to know exactly what someone is looking for until you meet/chat to the customer about their wants/needs.

Please don't be put off by the lack of XCR's out there lying around in shop windows (so to speak), they sell before they ever hit the shop, and yes they are that popular and for a reason. If you purchase an XCR, you won't be sorry. You never (hardly ever) see a XCR for sale used.

A warning though! Once you get one you will want more.

Take care.

Roy
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R
Re: New memeber, sincere question

Roy, I am certain that is true. I just wish that was the answer I was getting from dealers here...that they simply ordered according to the demand. I'm told that they won't even bother ordering because they don't expect anything to ever arrive.
Still, I do expect to be making the purchase soon. I'd just like to know why I can't find one anywhere. :'(

It's also true that I'm unlikely to find a rifle AND have that rifle be in the configuration I want. Fair enough point on that one.
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M
I ordered mine sight unseen last year and I believe I got a real early one. It has been the best gun purchase I have ever made. The rifle is that good. I find it funny that it doesn't get more mainstream press ala SCAR and Masada, but I don't think you will be disappointed. I actaully think the SCAR and the Masada look a little big and blocky but may have to add one or both to the collection, but I would be hard pressed to think that either will knock the XCR out as my primary duty gun. As good as it is I would love to see a .308 18 inch barreled gun for use as an observer/woodland gun.

I would recommend getting the basic gun and then building it to your satisfaction from there. I have been pleased with RA's CS and they have been as good as anyone else I have dealt with. Perfect, no, but I haven't come across a perfect company yet.
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N
I assume that like any other company, they are going to take care of their big accounts first. If some dealer orders 100 rifles and only pre-sells 50, then 50 will sit on his shelf, while a small order somewhere else is still unfilled. Just the nature of the business I guess.

I am waiting for that very reason right now. I could have ordered one from AIM and had it in a week, but I wanted to get all the upgraded parts and an ambi selector, so I had my dealer order a single rifle. The only other time he's ever ordered from RA, was for my VEPR back in the day. So, he isn't exactly a high volume dealer. I've been waiting since September, and am still waiting.

I expect it will be worth it when it finally gets here. I've waited longer (for DSA rifles, specifically).
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MickeyC
My experience has been positive and negative. Numerous emails have been ignored but whenever I get hold of someone they tend to be forthright. They are also getting better, slowly, but they are getting better. I also unerstand the issue a smaller manufacturer faces but this can only be used as an excuse for so long.

Dealers tend to take the safe route, but everyone who has shot this rifle has liked it, including a few AR15 lovers.

Am I overwhelmingly impressed....no. Do I think the company is heading in the right direction....yes. Would I buy another rifle...probably. Am I glad I bought my rifle.....YES. I was one of the first people to get one of these rifles and I have no regrets. It's good, reliable and easy to work on. Accuracy is better than average and parts are becomming more available.

Go ahead and buy a basic rifle, work on it and get it they way you want. It will not let you down and potentially it will get better over time. Hopefully RA will realize, as has Mercedes-Benz, that getting an existing customer to buy more products or re-buy is easier and cheaper than getting new customers to take the initial plunge. for example an XCR with two conversions and a few extras like an improved trigger or upgraded stock could easily double RA's revenue from each customer.

It's a small company moving in the right direction, slowly but moving and good on them.

Also the potential of this platform is significant, if RobArm doesn't fill the void someone else will. For example Bill Springfield trigger jobs have improved the only sub standard design item.
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R
Though I am very glad to hear you guys like your rifles, I don't need to be sold on them. I certainly want one...I just don't want to have to buy one I haven't held. It's too much cash to drop sight unseen. I've held too many guns that show varying degrees of quality, from the same manufacturer, sitting next to each other on the shelf. I want a beauty. I want a basic rifle other than the stock...gotta have the collapsible. Don't really care if it folds. I'm happy to add sights, grips, etc. later on.

So...any of you RA employees know whether or not your presence will be felt at the upcoming SAR show here in Phoenix NOvember 30-December 2?
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TerraShrewsbury
i could have sworn i replied to this thread. did someone delete my reply? ???
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admin
TerraShrewsbury said:
i could have sworn i replied to this thread. did someone delete my reply? ???
Click to expand...
Not me. Maybe you forgot to hit Post? It's happened to me once or twice before :duh:
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blukownaz
I'd let you try it out if you drove down and I was in town.

Got a tag to fill this weekend.

No, neither is for sale. The XCR is worth keeping.
I saw two XCRs at the last Pheonix gun show I went to. (September???)

Order one and be patient. I signed up for my first XCR and the Pheonix SAR
after I talked to Alex ~3 years ago. I recieved it over 21 months later.
My last order only took ~4 months. IIRC Alex has been at every Pheonix SAR
for 3 years running.

I wonder if he'll have an XCR-M at the SAR this year???

Most likely I won't make the SAR this year as my wife is due with our first
about that time.
Oh well....
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i303
You mean I'm not the only one in S. AZ with an XCR?!?!?

I'm sure I'm the 1st in CC. I had to go through my local FFL which exclusively deals with agency.

I'm moving to Yuma in the next two weeks anyways.
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TerraShrewsbury
admin said:
TerraShrewsbury said:
i could have sworn i replied to this thread. did someone delete my reply? ???
Click to expand...
Not me. Maybe you forgot to hit Post? It's happened to me once or twice before :duh:
Click to expand...
ah yes... i came in this morning, and it was sitting there, waiting to be posted. and then i tried to post it, and it wouldn't let me because of that permissions thing you just fixed. oh well. It was basically along the lines of :
who have you spoken to that was so unhappy with us? I'd like to get a hold of them and maybe smooth things over.
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R
Terra, I called Bear Arms in Scottsdale, and they flatly stated "We do not carry Robinson products." Legendary Guns would be happy but haven't seen a rifle in over a year. US Autoweapons has had two rifles on order for 11 months. They told me just this morning that RA has asked for payment several times but couldn't ever give the dealer a shipping date. There are several others but they aren't on your site. Most are smaller because I like giving my business to the Mom and Pop shops that making shooting what it is, but even the bigger stores ust can't seem to get them in. Even the biggest store in the valley of the sun (the Scottsdale Gun Club) can't get them. If you can smooth them over that's fantastic, but I really think it'll require getting rifles to them when they place their orders. There aren't enough picky guys like me...most will settle for an AR if there isn't an XCR on the shelf, and dealers know this. They spend their money on guns they can readily obtain and sell.

That's about all I know from talking to them. Go get 'em! AZ needs your products in the worst way. I'm sick of seeing fifty AR15s in a row at the ranges...
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admin
I get the feeling that Robinson Arms is at that breaking point stage where they have to make the decision to either go big or stay small and nimble. The advantages of going big are obvious, you can make and sell a lot more rifles. The disadvantage to going big is that you will lose your sustainability in tough times. Especially right before an election where there is a good chance one of the biggest and most active anti-gunners may get elected president (Hillary). I would guess that to move up Alex would probably have to take out loans to buy larger facilities, hire more employees and spend more money on advertising, etc. It's very risky to do this as opposed to what he's doing now, which is obviously very sustainable since he's been doing it for so long. Of course this is pure speculation and I could be completely wrong but so far that is the impression that I have of this situation.

:2cents:

Terra, please correct me if I'm way off here.
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