[variablebinary]

Some of you may remember a document that came out after the Extreme Dust Test where the M4 came in last. This document featured a list of improvements, including a polymer magazine, which were meant to make the M4 more reliable. Here is the result of SOCOM's input.

The Tango Down ARC magazine. Notice the mag is fully enclosed at the base to reduce foreign matter entering the mag or the gun's action (Photos by SMGLee)

The magazine is molded in two section and thermal glued together to creation a single body. Since the M16 style magazione requires a straght section and also a curved section, it has been an age long problem for anyone venture into the polymer magazine arena. Tangodown solved this problem by injecting the magazine in two secions, thus eliminating any issue with extracting the core from the molder.

The follower are also redesigned to be lighter, and also a four corner anti tilt legs. the spring redesigned to contact the follower at more of a center balanced point in order to push the rounds upwards wiothout any undue tilting.

XCR owners looking for the latest and greatest Mil-spec mags can look forward to these next month.

 

[aziator]

Well, they look interesting but I think for the average person not deployed it will probably be a waste of money. I may try to get my hands on a couple to see how they run but I still like my H&K the best.

 

[comatzd]

It looks to me like the dust seal had to be specifically designed to fit the AR lower. The XCR doesn't have the same mag well profile, so at best the seal will not mate and at worst interfere with the lower. Just guessing here, but I wouldn't touch it.

 

[MickeyC]

I'm with Aziator, my HK mags are brilliant. Just ordered two more to take me to twenty.

 

[ny32182]

It looks to me like the dust seal had to be specifically designed to fit the AR lower. The XCR doesn't have the same mag well profile, so at best the seal will not mate and at worst interfere with the lower. Just guessing here, but I wouldn't touch it.

Exactly... that "seal" is going to be too low to be functional in the XCR. I guess since the XCR isn't real dust sensitive anyway it won't be an issue, but having that seal hanging out there in space would look pretty goofy, and might mess with the grip of those who grip the front of the magwell.

 

[aziator]

I still think it is funny that the answer to the M4's dismal performance in dust is to design a mag with a dust seal. ??? What happens when the seal wears out? How many of those seals are you going to have to carry around. I can see them getting nicked and scratched getting in and out of vehicles.

 

[variablebinary]

It looks to me like the dust seal had to be specifically designed to fit the AR lower. The XCR doesn't have the same mag well profile, so at best the seal will not mate and at worst interfere with the lower. Just guessing here, but I wouldn't touch it.

Good point. I totally forgot about the XCR's different magwell profile.

 

[killswitch1982]

Probably won't use them in my XCR but they would be good for my son's AR that I am building for him. Hopefully they will be close to the same price as Pmags and those L5 mags.

 

[Cruzzer]

Hmm, I wonder how the XCR would perform in the militarys dust test? I'm sure as well as the top two or three. I know they're slammed in SLC, UT but that would kind of be neat to know. ;D

 

[itstock]

I'd be worried about snapping them in half under serious use (or abuse).

 

[DSM]

I guess this is the mag that Magpul was harping about that got budgeted some several millions of dollars to develop. I imagine they tested durability and such. It still looks fragile.

 

[Phazuka]

alot of new mags coming out lately. is it because of the panic buying craziness?

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

I know it might not be as strong,but give me a removable floorplate anyday.I don't care what kind of seal it has,you drop that mother in the mud and your gonna wanna flush it all the way out.



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[variablebinary]

I guess this is the mag that Magpul was harping about that got budgeted some several millions of dollars to develop. I imagine they tested durability and such. It still looks fragile.

Yeah Magpul wasnt happy and made it known to every ear they could talk into. They got really butthurt and defensive in this ARFCOM thread when people spoke about the PMAG being totally overlooked, with SOCOM deciding to work with another vendor and essentially make their own mag, which became the ARC. Magpul has had tantrums on ARFCOM on more than one occasion.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=2


This is the best part of the whole thing and for those that dont know Clint Lynch is an FN staffer and part of the SCAR program.

Originally Posted By Magpul:
Please do not read too much into the bantering that goes on. It is much the same as the US ARMY vs NAVY vs USMC stuff that goes on between the veterans at work.


I guess I don't see it that way. You might think you're kidding around, but I work this (SCAR) program every day and when I see things like "Built in Boulder, Not Belgium" from a company who can't make their own rifle it pisses me off. Maybe if it (t-shirt) said "Made by Bushmaster, Not Magpul" it would be funny. Are you going to make one that says "Built in Connecticut, Not Colorado"? I couldn't think of one for Oberndorf...


Originally Posted By Magpul:
havoc: FN is already working with another vendor (who is also a current supplier for the SCAR program) on alternate grip and magazine options.


I'm not able to view the thread, but if I remember correctly it had a photo of another current vendor for the SCAR program who had equipped a SCAR (on loan to them for developmental testing, and without FN's prior knowledge) with your MIAD grip and a PMAG. You were trying to leverage the responses to request FN's consideration of those same products as OEM.

Then, just like now, I was aware of TangoDown's ARC magazine by way of the government. The grip comment I made refers to something else entirely. The rest you can surmise from my comments here, and from the email I sent to your colleague.

I do have to ask - why do you want your products on our gun?


Originally Posted By Magpul:So will the SOCOM requirements for this new magazine be put out to bid in a sources sought?


I honestly have no idea. Admittedly, I work in design - the contracting side of the game doesn't interest me so I stay out of it.

Best Regards,
Clint Lynch

**edited for spelling**

 

[MickeyC]

If the TangoDown mag is in response to a government contract it's parbably $50 each.

 

[variablebinary]

If the TangoDown mag is in response to a government contract it's parbably each.

$24.95


http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/TangoDown-ARC-Magazine-30-Round-FLAT-DARK-EARTH-p/arc l 001 fde.htm

 

[MickeyC]

PMags are still cheaper.

 

[Whiskey three six]

PMags are still cheaper.

And one piece too.

 

[o313]

GI mag with follower upgrade and teflon finish.

If i wanted more plastic I would buy a Sig 556.

 

[variablebinary]

Magpul is out of hand. This is off M4C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango Down
Noctis,

I'm at Crane right now. ARC is in a few parallel test programs here. I was in conference with PM after a funny call came in from a company 4 years late to the dance.

All, we have a line of ARC magazines, both 5.56 and 7.62 for a few weapon systems.

Stay tuned-


RichFitz Online
Industry Professional Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13

I respectfully suggest you re-evaluate what you view as the Dance

I admire your ability to swing a no competition hook up to build an accessory for a developing weapon system, but that is not the Dance

The Dance was fought on the streets of Fallujah, Najaf, Mosul and Kabul over the last few years and winding down with the surge, mid this year.

The PMag was over there supporting those who needed a reliable, composite magazine most and the Dance sounded allot like this email we received during one of the most violent months in Iraq…

“My platoon was just recently in a really bad fire fight in one of the worst areas in Iraq. We went through hundreds of 5.56 rounds. Every one who was using the issued standard metal mags were getting jams and miss feeds left and right. Out of my 8 magazines I bought from your company I went through all of them twice and I only had on miss feed from a bent round. When the other guys on my vehicle would have a jam they relied on me to cover them while the corrected the malfunction. There is no doubt in my mind that due to me having your magazines is the reason that we didn’t take any serious causalities.”

So thanks but I am pretty happy with the PMag participation in the Dance.


Tango Down Offline
Manufacturer Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12

Rich,

Again, you're mistaken. The dance I referred to is not the war, but a solicitation that has come and gone. You accuse us of manipulating a Government program? You should thoroughly understand US Military procurement before you post, especially on TangoDown threads. Since we are IP's, I suggest you take it to IM.

Gotta love it...