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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, my name is Sean King. I live in Mesa, AZ.

Have a few questions regarding the XCR.

To be 100% honest, I was really looking forward to getting an ACR from Bushmaster. As most of you probably know, that is now not likely for at least a year...if ever.

One thing I disliked about the ACR was the re-use of the small bolt from the AR.

That's the major selling point (to me) about the XCR.

Is there any kind of durability assessment with the XCR's bolt vs. the AR? Mean time to failure in rounds or anything?

I am considering (if I can find and afford one) a 16" lightweight bbl with A2 FH in 5.56.

Eventually, I'd like to get the 6.8 SPC conversion (assuming a 1:11 or 1:12 twist 3-4 groove bbl will eventually be offered in the SPC II chamber).

If I decide to SBR the 6.8, do I send tax stamp paperwork to Robinson Arms before they'll ship, or is it like other AR makers (my LWRCs for example) that leave that part up to me? I don't care either way really....unless I have them send a 14.5" 6.8 bbl to a local smith to have a 1.5-2" FH permanently affixed so as to avoid the tax stamp hassle (been through that with my LWRCs already). Perhaps I can just pay RA to permanently affix a FH of my choosing to a 14.5" bbl??


I'm sure I'll have other questions....but the wife is calling me to dinner.

Thanks in advance,
Sean
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Wife isn't ready....so I have time for a few more questions:

Spare parts availability. Can I buy things like the extractor, bolt, carrier, springs, various hardware direct from RA?

The bbl bolt *seems* like it might shoot/vibrate loose even at 200 in-lbs. I'd guess red loctite wouldn't really do much either since the bbl is gonna get hot. Anyone have any issues with it loosening up and what did you do to stop it (including snugging it up more)?

Stock: I really like the idea of a folder and I understand RA's reasoning for the slimmer tubular style stock. However, (and I'll admit to being a wuss here) it's really ugly and I'd prefer a strong adjustable for other shooters to try the gun. I have an Ace Ltd USA M4 SOCOM on my AR and LOVE it. It appears, the Ace folding mechanism and M4 SOCOM stock would work on the XCR....but am I correct that I just need to buy the parts from Ace? Will it fire and extract reliably with the stock folded (not like I'd probably ever do it except for fun)?

Looking at the videos on RA's site it appears the bolt/carrier rides inside an aluminum upper receiver, but does the carrier itself ride on steel rails? If not, is there any concern about carrier tilt (as in piston ARs) or internal receiver wear b/c of the steel riding on aluminum?

Sight picture: I asked in another thread, but might as well ask here too. Is the top 12 o'clock rail the same height from the stock as an AR? Will regular AR style BUIS work as well as LaRue/GG&G mounts or is an elevated cheek piece required to get proper sight picture. It *looks* like the XCR has a higher top rail compared to the stock. How do you get around this if it is taller?

Is there any kind of spring on the firing pin to help reduce the possiblity of "slam fires" (similar to what was being done on the ACR and SCAR)?

Recoil of the XCR vs. an AR? Looking at the videos....it appears to be less....counter to what most say about GP ARs. Experiences?

RA's site mentions no headspacing is necessary when changing bbls. What about if you break a bolt and change it to a new one.....is headspacing required then (probably showing off my lack of knowledge about guns ;) ).

Anyone have any broken bolts/lugs? I know some of you have shot 10K rounds now....just wondering if this has been an issue in any caliber (6.8, 7.62, 5.56)?


Thanks for any answers you can give.

Sean
 

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I'll try to help with your questions. I am at or above 15 K rounds and no signs of wear to the upper receiver. I run two bolts and two barrels and have switched them between each other and every combo always worked.

I switch barrels about once a month, sometimes more, and have never had a barrel bolt come loose.

The sight plain is higher than an AR and I run my optics in slightly lower mounts. With a RDS, the irons are a direct co witness. The higher sight plain works better for me with thick armor or in a gas mask. I have hit steel silhouettes out to 350 yards with irons, so I don't think the higher sight plain matter much. That said, I have made a riser for my CTR for precision work.

I've had no problems getting spare parts and have spare small parts for everything, at least I think so.

I've had some problems breaking firing pins and have 2 spares, just in case. I've talked to Terra at length about it and it appears they are on the right track, at least from what I remember for engineering school. The firing pins are spring loaded to stay to the rear. I have run on a broken firing pin for a hundred or more rounds before I found it and it kept working and no slam fires.

You can run pretty much any AR sliding stock on the XCR, folding or fixed, your choice. All you need is the right rear receiver adaptor. Right now I have pretty much settled on a fixed tube, CTR.

Mine and my buddies's XCR's seem to recoil less than an AR. It had been a while since I fired an AR and it kinda popped my nose. I think they are very, very smooth guns.

The bolt lugs are straight galil, or darn close. The are extremely rugged and I can't ever imagine a bolt lug failing on the XCR. Mine show finish wear but nothing that remotely concerns me.

Let me know if you have any more questions or if I missed any. I'll do my best to help you.

I whole heartedly recommend the gun and think you will enjoy it. RA is supposed to be coming out with a SCAR stock, hopefully soon, and the cheek riser issue should be moot then, although I have always found it to be over exaggerated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'll try to help with your questions. I am at or above 15 K rounds and no signs of wear to the upper receiver. I run two bolts and two barrels and have switched them between each other and every combo always worked.

I switch barrels about once a month, sometimes more, and have never had a barrel bolt come loose.

The sight plain is higher than an AR and I run my optics in slightly lower mounts. With a RDS, the irons are a direct co witness. The higher sight plain works better for me with thick armor or in a gas mask. I have hit steel silhouettes out to 350 yards with irons, so I don't think the higher sight plain matter much. That said, I have made a riser for my CTR for precision work.

I've had no problems getting spare parts and have spare small parts for everything, at least I think so.

I've had some problems breaking firing pins and have 2 spares, just in case. I've talked to Terra at length about it and it appears they are on the right track, at least from what I remember for engineering school. The firing pins are spring loaded to stay to the rear. I have run on a broken firing pin for a hundred or more rounds before I found it and it kept working and no slam fires.

You can run pretty much any AR sliding stock on the XCR, folding or fixed, your choice. All you need is the right rear receiver adaptor. Right now I have pretty much settled on a fixed tube, CTR.

Mine and my buddies's XCR's seem to recoil less than an AR. It had been a while since I fired an AR and it kinda popped my nose. I think they are very, very smooth guns.

The bolt lugs are straight galil, or darn close. The are extremely rugged and I can't ever imagine a bolt lug failing on the XCR. Mine show finish wear but nothing that remotely concerns me.

Let me know if you have any more questions or if I missed any. I'll do my best to help you.

I whole heartedly recommend the gun and think you will enjoy it. RA is supposed to be coming out with a SCAR stock, hopefully soon, and the cheek riser issue should be moot then, although I have always found it to be over exaggerated.
So, does the carrier ride on steel rails or just on the aluminum receiver?

What about accuracy? As good as a typical AR?

What other caliber/bbl do you have? (Hoping it's 6.8 since that's what I'm getting too and would like to pick your brain).


Is the folding receiver adapter from Ace Ltd USA the right one to work on the XCR (maybe I should also be asking Ace, huh?)

Any idea on the firing pin breakage? What's causing it?

Good to know on the recoil.

Thanks for all the quick answers. You've been very helpful.

Sean
 

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The carrier rides in the aluminum receiver; in that aspect it is AR-like. Its actual function is AK-like: The bolt has an integrated cam pin, and cams on a slot in the short carrier. There are pictures of all the internals floating around here somewhere.

Accuracy off a bench; I've found its about equal to an AR with a similar barrel (5.56 chamber spec; chrome lined). I would expect the XCR to be more consistent than a standard AR from different rest positions due to being free floated.

The folding stock hinge, both for the standard tube stock and AR buffer tube adapter version, are RA parts, not ACE parts. If ACE makes anything that fits the XCR, I have not heard about it. The rear interface to the XCR lower is unique.

The firing pin breakage does get reported occassionally, but not enough to where I'd worry about it. Probably even less with the upgraded bolt/FP. If you are worried about it, just have a spare bolt assembly on hand... probably not a bad idea anyway.
 

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I'll let Terra explain further on their theories, if they want them known, but it is based on sound engineering from my experience.

As was said, I keep a spare bolt, just in case.

As for accuracy, with the heavy barrel, I make MO quals with wolf ammo. Groups at times are something to brag about, but cheap ammo, and making a high standard of practical accuracy is really what I am after.

I am only running .223 now. I run a 14.5 light barrel for entry/patrol work and swap to the 16 inch heavy barrel for precision. Optics of course switch to match barrel/mission.

Agree with ny32182 on the stock parts all being from RA. Ace my make the tube stocks for them based on looks, but all the hinges/adaptors I have bought have come from RA.
 

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The guys have pretty much covered everything. I run both 5.56 and 6.8. I have both in 11.5" barrels and a 16" in 5.56. All mine started as 16", I did the Form 1 myself then had the barrels cut down. I can still manage about 2" groups at 100m with the 6.8SPC. If you have any more questions let us know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the info on the proprietary folding mount on the back of the receiver. I thought it must be something from Ace Ltd since the stocks appear to look the same.....well that, and I saw in the stock forum that someone has mated an M4 SOCOM stock to their XCR. Guess I should PM him to find out how he did it exactly. I can weld, so maybe there's a custom fit up to do there (though I'm not sure I'd go to that extent to replace the factory folder).

A few more questions.....

Is the XCR considered a long stroke gas piston (since it's more like the AK) or a short stroke like the GP ARs?


Headspacing: none is necessary for a bbl change....but what about for a bolt change if you change one out due to wear or a broken lug or something?

I gotta tell you, from what I'm seeing here, the XCR is the best kept semi-secret out there in firearms. It's basically everything the Masada/ACR was supposed to be (minus the adjustable cheek rest, polymer frame and steel carrier rails) and has the benefit of the much stronger bolt and extractor set up (A HUGE plus IMO). If there's no need to headspace for a new bolt (assuming you'd ever break a bolt in the first place)...there's another point in its favor over the AR or ACR.

I am a little curious about the steel carrier riding on aluminum. Can anyone explain how the carrier manages to stay centered in the receiver without wearing on it? I'm guessing it's b/c the op rod is centering it as it rides along the gas tube. Anything else?

Thanks again for all your helpful answers. aziator....I might be contacting you about how you did your SBR later. I have two now (10.5" 6.8 and 5.56 LWRCs) and for the time being don't want to mess with any more tax stamp paperwork, but an XCR in an SBR would be something I might be interested in later.

BTW, are there any regional forums? I'm in AZ and would like to actually see an XCR before I buy.

Thanks,
Sean
 

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You don't have to do any custom fabbing on the stock... RA makes a folding adapter that accepts an AR buffer tube. You can order with one installed straight from the factory.

The XCR has a long stroke piston system: the piston is attached to the carrier throughout the entire stroke, like an AK.

Headspace on changing bolts: I doubt any adjustments are necessary as long as all the parts are in spec (should be the same in any rifle, really), but I will defer to Terra for a final answer on that one. FWIW, I don't think there has ever been a single report here of a broken bolt. The bolt is far more AK like than AR like.

I consider the XCR to be the best carbine design ever sold on the open market right now. The ACR, on paper, has the advantages of using existing AR triggers and barrels, which would mean unlimited aftermarket development would be available from day one on those two key components (and that is no small thing), but I think the operating system of the XCR would prove more robust. All speculation since the ACR is vaporware right now. The FN SCAR; I've seen videos of it being disassembled, and there are a million small parts in that thing; and they made the curious choices of going with a many-lug AR like bolt (if they are not using an AR barrel I don't know why they would have done this) and they also appear to have the 6 oclock rail mounted directly on the barrel... I can't imagine how that is a good idea. I can't imagine why any of these new designs would use anything other than a monolithic free floated upper. Hopefully one day they will be in our hands and we can see.

RA should be releasing a proprietary SCAR-spec stock for the XCR sometime soon (folding; adjustable LOP and cheek height), and that should round out its SCAR-spec feature set.

As far as the carrier, its a round steel carrier riding in a round aluminum receiver. I believe the contact points are on the exterior bottom edges... same type design that has proven itself for the last 60 years in the AR. I'm not aware of any complaints about wear in the upper, including from those with 10k+ rounds through the rifle.

For the SBR, just use the same process you would for an AR: Acquire the rifle, send in the form; when it comes back, drop on a short barrel. I think RA will sell you a factory SBR as well if you have your class 3 dealer lined up.
 

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NY I couldn't agree more your opinion of why any modern designed battle carbine/assault rifle would use anything other that a monolithic upper.There is no excuse for hanging anthing from the barrel.The only thing in my mind that keeps the XCR from being the "perfect" fighting rifle is it needs am bi mag release and safety.The charging handle would be nice,but I'm not sure if that would be possible without a lot of expense and trouble.Offering a left hand version may be a viable option in the future.



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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You don't have to do any custom fabbing on the stock... RA makes a folding adapter that accepts an AR buffer tube. You can order with one installed straight from the factory.

The XCR has a long stroke piston system: the piston is attached to the carrier throughout the entire stroke, like an AK.

Headspace on changing bolts: I doubt any adjustments are necessary as long as all the parts are in spec (should be the same in any rifle, really), but I will defer to Terra for a final answer on that one. FWIW, I don't think there has ever been a single report here of a broken bolt. The bolt is far more AK like than AR like.

I consider the XCR to be the best carbine design ever sold on the open market right now. The ACR, on paper, has the advantages of using existing AR triggers and barrels, which would mean unlimited aftermarket development would be available from day one on those two key components (and that is no small thing), but I think the operating system of the XCR would prove more robust. All speculation since the ACR is vaporware right now. The FN SCAR; I've seen videos of it being disassembled, and there are a million small parts in that thing; and they made the curious choices of going with a many-lug AR like bolt (if they are not using an AR barrel I don't know why they would have done this) and they also appear to have the 6 oclock rail mounted directly on the barrel... I can't imagine how that is a good idea. I can't imagine why any of these new designs would use anything other than a monolithic free floated upper. Hopefully one day they will be in our hands and we can see.

RA should be releasing a proprietary SCAR-spec stock for the XCR sometime soon (folding; adjustable LOP and cheek height), and that should round out its SCAR-spec feature set.

As far as the carrier, its a round steel carrier riding in a round aluminum receiver. I believe the contact points are on the exterior bottom edges... same type design that has proven itself for the last 60 years in the AR. I'm not aware of any complaints about wear in the upper, including from those with 10k+ rounds through the rifle.

For the SBR, just use the same process you would for an AR: Acquire the rifle, send in the form; when it comes back, drop on a short barrel. I think RA will sell you a factory SBR as well if you have your class 3 dealer lined up.
Ya, I went to RA's site and noticed they sell an adapter for this for (I think) $115.

Any idea when the SCAR type stock will be available?

Gotta agree on the choices regarding the ACR and SCAR using the AR style bolts....I'm guessing it was so that (in the ACR's case) they could re-use existing bbls. And on the SCAR lower rail.....stupid IMO. Why you'd want ANYTHING affecting barrel harmonics or a giant heat sink (especially since your hand goes there even with a VFG) is beyond me.....but maybe they have their reasons. I'm sure they're smarter than I am.

Here's the deal....according to the chat box above, Terra says RA is out about 8 weeks on orders. That's fine. I'm now seriously looking at getting one, but there are none to be had in stock that I can find. I found a few (but they were all sold now) and they were going for ALOT more (due to demand) than MSRP.

So, here's the question.....wouldn't I be guaranteed a reasonable MSRP by ordering direct, and then just paying a transfer fee at my local dealer? The problem is the "Dealer Agreement" and "Dealer Information Form" on RA's site.

Anyone have any trouble with their dealer over this? My dealers don't care if I buy from someone else....they're getting $25-35 (depending on the dealer I use) for the transfer, but in this Obama-crazed firearms market, are they likely to want a "cut"? Reading the "Dealer Agreement" and "Dealer Information Form"....If I were a dealer, I'd be hesitant to go along b/c it seems that perhaps I am entering into some sort of agreement to start ordering product. Nothing I read in there says that at all, but from a dealer's perspective, (and knowing he's not interested in buying anything, or reading it in depth for that matter....he just wants the $35 he's going to make on a transfer)....I'm not sure I'd want to sign that stuff either.

Why does RA make it so complicated for the dealer? He's merely doing a transfer and no other transfer I've ever done has required anything more than a faxed FFL copy and address of the dealer to ship the firearm to.

Thanks,
Sean
 

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Just send your FFL copy, tell them to ship the rifle there... unless my dealer completely neglected to mention having to jump through any hoops, that is all it takes.

I bought mine about a year ago, and the wait was at least 8 weeks at that time, I think... if they are quoting 8 weeks now, that doesn't seem to bad to me. I'm sure it all depends on their parts availability.
 

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NY I couldn't agree more your opinion of why any modern designed battle carbine/assault rifle would use anything other that a monolithic upper.There is no excuse for hanging anthing from the barrel.The only thing in my mind that keeps the XCR from being the "perfect" fighting rifle is it needs am bi mag release and safety.The charging handle would be nice,but I'm not sure if that would be possible without a lot of expense and trouble.Offering a left hand version may be a viable option in the future.
Well, they have had an ambi selector available for a while... I ordered mine with one from the factory (I'm a lefty). An ambi mag catch would be nice for sure. The charging handle; it would be nice if it was ambi as well, but that doesn't bother me all that much. I do agree that if the XCR has a weakness in the design, I think it is that *all* the controls are not ambi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You guys are probably getting sick of answering questions, but I have a few more for ya.

Does the XCR have a captured push pin in the front for marrying the upper and lower receiver like a standard AR? Just wondering if you have to have a tool to disassemble the lower and upper (sorta like a Colt AR with the proprietary pins).

Also, I'm reading on another forum about an XCR having trouble feeding hollow points. Anyone esle have this issue (I rarely shoot anything other than FMJ or frangible so this is of little concern). Just wondering if the XCR has M4 type feed ramps in the bbl extension?

As for the dealer FFL....I guess when I order through RA, I can ask direct if they need to also fill out the dealer agreement and info form.

Thanks again,
Sean
 

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Welcome to the Family Sean K

I am only going to answer what I know for sure and that is the XCR has no trouble with hollow points, I put around 1500 62gr Silver Bear Boat Tail Hollow Points through mine in a class and problem I had was caused by a bad mag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Welcome to the Family Sean K

I am only going to answer what I know for sure and that is the XCR has no trouble with hollow points, I put around 1500 62gr Silver Bear Boat Tail Hollow Points through mine in a class and problem I had was caused by a bad mag.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like HPs are GTG! Are there any feed ramp cuts in the bbl extension or receiver on the XCR?

I do have MORE questions ;D. This one is stock related.

Will the XCR still fire and eject properly with the stock folded? The skeleton tube style stock with the foam pad seems to have a lanyard hole at the end that blocks the ejection port slightly in the pics I've seen....It may just be the angle of the pic.

I'm thinking of changing the stock though and am left wondering: if you can't fire it with the stock folded, there's no point in getting a folder in the first place.

I'd much prefer a stock like the Ace M4 SOCOM stock to the folder that comes on the rifle, but there's no good way to get a higher cheek riser if I need it for standard AR style BUIS and red dot mounts. That leaves me looking for stocks that have risers available....which leads me to the CTR (which I really don't care for personally) or possibly the UBR....heavy but very nice overall. Does anyone know if 1) the CTR style cheek risers will also work on the UBR (I have an email into Magpul on this) and 2) if a UBR with a cheek riser or M4 Socom stock will block the ejection port when folded (like I think they likely will).....in which case I should just get a fixed stock adapter.

Any help is appreciated.

Sean
 
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never heard of the XCR having rouble feeding ammo before.  I would suspect that the individual had some bad mags or wierd reloads or failed to lube properly.

accuracy is on par with an AR.

some say the HK 416 BUIS are ideal height for the XCR. it's a bit higher than the AR.
 

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The feed ramps do not extend into the lower, if that is your question. The lower is not an AR lower, and RA states that the magazine to chamber geometry does not match that of an AR. The magazine sits higher in relation to the chamber. I.e, the rounds don't have to elevate as much when feeding, and ramps extended in the same manner you see in the AR15 "M4" type would be useless. (Personally, I've never owned an AR with the "standard" ramps that had any trouble feeding anyway).

I have fired 69gr SMK (OTM) and 62gr Silver Bear HP, and never any feeding issues.

As far as firing with the stock folded, I've never tried, so I don't know... why would you fire with the stock folded? I believe I have *heard* that it functions with the standard folding stock in the folded position, but don't know for sure. If you've got a big CTR or something out there with cheek risers attached, etc, I think you'd have to test with your exact setup, or talk to someone who has.

The front receiver pin is a captive pin that functions similarly to that of an AR. The XCR pin is retained by a wire clip that catches in a groove around the circumference of the pin, rather than by a detent that rides in a horizontal groove in the pin (as in an AR).
 

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It will fire just fine with the factory stock folded. I like having a folder just for the ease of storage/transport. Goes in a case that doesn't look big enough to hold a rifle.

As far as the Bolt, I don't recall the need to headspace if you swap a new bolt into a gun with tons of use/rounds through it. As long as everything is still SPEC it should be GTG.
 

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Yea NY the charging handle and mag release would be nice options to have for lefties,it doesn't bother me as I'm right handed,but I guess I mean it would be more readily accepted if considered for military trials.I knew about the safety.

Sean,
The XCR will function ok with most stocks as long as they don't have a check riser.The idea of the folder is mainly for compact storage/transport,but I like the idea that it will work in a pinch when folded if need be too.
Just to expand on what NY said about the front pin,it does not need a tool,it pushes out and stops,just in case that needed clarification.
As others have stated also,mine too feed anything I run thru it.Hope this helps.



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