I think #3 might be an issue with me now. Not sure as she still fires, just had one incident where she would go "click" but not "bang". Tried 3 times in a row and same result. Then I changed mags and emptied that one mag, along with 3 more with out issues. I am going to keep an eye out on #3.
No Rocket Scientry Here...
Fellas,
We don't have to be a mechanical engineer to figure out some OF THE COMMON PROBLEMS we encounter with our XCR's and other weapons. I believe EVERYONE who owns any gun should have some basic mechanical insight. To say that "I don't have it" means to me "I won't try" and "I don't care". These are the same folks who will also bring up that same question I always see/hear "Which is the best for the SHTF gun?" Well if indeed the S-H's-T-F I doubt posting our problems on the intraweb, if so accesible still at that time, will bring a quickly needed solution. Much less expecting courrier services to be up and running.
Folks, the XCR really hasn't got anything new that has't been around for at least 60 years as far as a basic design goes. There are no computer chips to mess around with unless of course somehow you managed to shove one in the XCR somehow. Plus I can't see how RA, or any other gun manufacturer, can make the XCR, or any other gun, more anti-armorer/pro-self repair any simpler. So accessing any part in order to remove and replace, repair, or adjust any simpler.
IF YOU SEE THAT YOU HAVE CRATERED OR PIERCED PRIMERS SEE DA STICKY.
IF YOU NOTICE THAT THE EJECTOR IS LOOSE SEE STICKY OR RETIGHTEN W/LOC-TITE.
IF YOU NOTICE THAT YOUR XCR ISN'T FIRING ALL TOO WELL, SHAKE THE THING, SEE WHERE IT IS RATTLING FROM AND EITHER TIGHTEN THAT OR FIND DA PART/GET ANOTHER AND REPLACE IT.
Ya'll will be amazed, if not astonished, that you can find the tools necessary to work on your XCR at Home Depot, Lowe's, ACE, TrueValue, Harbor Freight (eewww) or mom and pop hardware. You should at least have handy a 1/4" allen wrench for the barrel and a 5/8" open end for the old GB handy, like say in whatever case you carry your XCR along with a cleaning rod (not bore smake-that I just use for cleaning) and broken shell extractor for that once in a million chance a case head separates (not the gun's fault). Ya'll will also be amazed that the same hardware store may carry 90% of the bolts, screws, springs, and clips that are on your XCR. But I recommend to get them from RA because we are talking inexpensive parts here.
Most inportantly;
IF YOU DO EXPERIENCE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR XCR THAT CAN'T BE FIXED IN DA FIELD, CALL, E-MAIL, OR WRITE ROBINSON ARMS FIRST!
If it needs to be aired on open forum with da problem, at least give them a call 1st, THEN tell us about your experiences but don't be like this "It's a POS because I can't tighten a barrel bolt, but I'm a high speed operator with 8K post count" guy:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=21172&pid=193152&st=0&#entry193152
No gun is immune to "issues". Even well proven designs will have issues arise from time to time such as in QC at times falter.
The XCR din't get to benefit from g'vmt expense R&D/T&E such as the SCAR did. Or the 40+ years for the M16 (I still can't believe it took THAT long to resolve crappy magazines that probably caused 60% of failures). And from a first hand source, the SCAR did have issues that were/are addressed during such test and evaluations making it an impressive weapon in the end, to include not having to re-invent a magazine. Funny, didn't the XCR enter to compete with the SCAR but then DQ'd b/c a blank adaptor wasn't included? BS if you ask me and SOCOM had already picked what they wanted before the test and eval. Nothing new really.
So we are pretty much are it in R&D/T&E on ours an RA dime.
Posting problems with the XCR is fine but it seems that we are posting the same problems over and over and ignoring the sticky's posting about the same issues.
Here have been my problems and issues regarding my XCR:
#1) Gas block came loose. Noticed it at around 250 round count and still worked. Resolved: I just tightened it. No lock tite. As later posted by RA carbon will self lock tite it as I noticed that on a recent complete disasembly.
#2) Trigger fails to reset. I will later divulge as to the condition of my XCR but I will say it was filthy to the extreme, on purpose for you benefit. Round count approx 1600. I noticed the retaining clip to the hammer axis pin missing and axis pin out about 1 mm. I shook my lower around and found the clip, retrived it and reinstalled it. Still continued to have minor trigger reset issues. I determined this was due to a) dirt, b) no lube on trigger wear parts, c) trigger design. I resolved it by complete dissasembly, clean, and re-lubing of critical contact points.
#3) Failure to Fire/feed and bolt closing, hard to pull CH back. Also during extreme testing. Round count discovered at 1755 but probably also happened around 1600. Issue-firing pin tip broke, but still fired. Also later noticed cratered primers. Dissasembled and checked bolt face noticing lack of protruding FP as I pushed up on the back. Popped roll pin (drift pin purchased at Lowe's) and saw that it also was slightly bent. I also discovered that I have the old FP. E-MAILED TERRA and 3 days later I have a new complete bolt with new updated FP.
Total cost for all 3 issues: $0.00
Down time for all 3 issues: 30 seconds for #1, about 20 min total for #2, 3 days as per US Postal Service ship time. If I'd had parts on hand, about 20 min to figure it out tops plus 30 seconds to swap out.
I hope this helps. Thank you for your time and you may continue with your daily lives now.
We don't have to be a mechanical engineer to figure out some OF THE COMMON PROBLEMS we encounter with our XCR's and other weapons. I believe EVERYONE who owns any gun should have some basic mechanical insight. To say that "I don't have it" means to me "I won't try" and "I don't care". These are the same folks who will also bring up that same question I always see/hear "Which is the best for the SHTF gun?" Well if indeed the S-H's-T-F I doubt posting our problems on the intraweb, if so accesible still at that time, will bring a quickly needed solution. Much less expecting courrier services to be up and running.
Folks, the XCR really hasn't got anything new that has't been around for at least 60 years as far as a basic design goes. There are no computer chips to mess around with unless of course somehow you managed to shove one in the XCR somehow. Plus I can't see how RA, or any other gun manufacturer, can make the XCR, or any other gun, more anti-armorer/pro-self repair any simpler. So accessing any part in order to remove and replace, repair, or adjust any simpler.
IF YOU SEE THAT YOU HAVE CRATERED OR PIERCED PRIMERS SEE DA STICKY.
IF YOU NOTICE THAT THE EJECTOR IS LOOSE SEE STICKY OR RETIGHTEN W/LOC-TITE.
IF YOU NOTICE THAT YOUR XCR ISN'T FIRING ALL TOO WELL, SHAKE THE THING, SEE WHERE IT IS RATTLING FROM AND EITHER TIGHTEN THAT OR FIND DA PART/GET ANOTHER AND REPLACE IT.
Ya'll will be amazed, if not astonished, that you can find the tools necessary to work on your XCR at Home Depot, Lowe's, ACE, TrueValue, Harbor Freight (eewww) or mom and pop hardware. You should at least have handy a 1/4" allen wrench for the barrel and a 5/8" open end for the old GB handy, like say in whatever case you carry your XCR along with a cleaning rod (not bore smake-that I just use for cleaning) and broken shell extractor for that once in a million chance a case head separates (not the gun's fault). Ya'll will also be amazed that the same hardware store may carry 90% of the bolts, screws, springs, and clips that are on your XCR. But I recommend to get them from RA because we are talking inexpensive parts here.
Most inportantly;
IF YOU DO EXPERIENCE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR XCR THAT CAN'T BE FIXED IN DA FIELD, CALL, E-MAIL, OR WRITE ROBINSON ARMS FIRST!
If it needs to be aired on open forum with da problem, at least give them a call 1st, THEN tell us about your experiences but don't be like this "It's a POS because I can't tighten a barrel bolt, but I'm a high speed operator with 8K post count" guy:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=21172&pid=193152&st=0&#entry193152
Saiga-12 Forum said:QUOTE (Zebra @ Dec 4 2007, 05:03 AM)
not impressed with the HK 416. it looks like a piston driven AR as someone stated earlier. still got a hard on for the XCR from Robinson Armament.
QUOTE (Saigaczech @ Jan 13 2008, 03:31 AM)
Lose your hard-on for the XCR, had one and got rid of it in less then 6 months. The barrel requires "exact" torquing of the bolt that fixes it in place. That bolt comes loose easily and the whole barrel wiggles then. If you over tighten the bolt it damages the receiver. I had it come loose during a class, was stringing my groups all over the place at 100 meters and had all the instructors saying, "WTF?" as they know I rate master with a rifle(Master rating? Or was it masturbating? The guy leads one to belive he is a Marine or Army grunt. Neither rates "Master" in any FA qual course.). Another thumbs down is that you have to punch out the front pin if you need access into the receiver. Not very user friendly as it will not open as wide as you need for you to work on it. The trigger sucks too and is proprietary so you can't fix it. Just my.02 worth.Saiga-12 Forum said:QUOTE (Zebra @ Dec 4 2007, 05:03 AM)
not impressed with the HK 416. it looks like a piston driven AR as someone stated earlier. still got a hard on for the XCR from Robinson Armament.
QUOTE (Saigaczech @ Jan 13 2008, 03:31 AM)
Lose your hard-on for the XCR, had one and got rid of it in less then 6 months. The barrel requires "exact" torquing of the bolt that fixes it in place. That bolt comes loose easily and the whole barrel wiggles then. If you over tighten the bolt it damages the receiver. I had it come loose during a class, was stringing my groups all over the place at 100 meters and had all the instructors saying, "WTF?" as they know I rate master with a rifle(Master rating? Or was it masturbating? The guy leads one to belive he is a Marine or Army grunt. Neither rates "Master" in any FA qual course.). Another thumbs down is that you have to punch out the front pin if you need access into the receiver. Not very user friendly as it will not open as wide as you need for you to work on it. The trigger sucks too and is proprietary so you can't fix it. Just my $0.02 worth.
As to HKs, I am still partial to the P2000 or USP compact system with LEM trigger. Best DAO system on the market I think. I agree that they are way over priced, about as much as SIGs. I blame the media for the pricing, every bozo wants the gun used in "Rainbow Six", "Collateral" or "24" as ti will make them uber tactical. Most of them are trained with weekends playing Counterstrike or Halo and do not know which end the bullets come out of. Grrr. Not to mention, the HK Mk 23 is the only gun I held that made a Glock 21 feel ergonomically correct. The grips are just too big even for my lumberjack hands.
The HK civilian rifle designs suck and the cool ones are not available to civies. The HK AR mags are way over priced as well as their guns. I seem to do just fine with surplus mags for $11 each and a MagPul follower.
Oh well, the government likes them so they are blowing millions of our tax dollars buying their stuff. What can you do?
QUOTE (i303 @ Jan 26 2008, 10:02 PM)
Let me see if I got this staright, the XCR is a total POS that you don't recommend because the barrel retaining bolt came loose during a class? So just tightening it requires any special skill or tool other than a 1/4 inch allen wrench available at any hardware store, WalMart, and probably any other discount and grocery store?
My gas block screw came loose. You know what I did instead of selling it? I tightened it up.
QUOTE (Saigaczech @ Jan 27 2008, 04:08 AM)
Yes, it is a POS because a barrel coming loose during a real engagement is a big NO NO! Last I remembered I do not carry a 1/4" allen wrench in my tactical gear nor is it standard issue to any individual infantryman. If a rifle can have that sort of problem during a class, which is nice and peaceful compared to a SHTF scenario, it will fail you when you need it most. Unacceptable. Also just tightening it without the proper torque settings will mean it will either come loose again or that you damage the receiver ( I discussed this with the tech support at Robinson so it is straight dope from them). Neither is acceptable for a military class weapon (or one that is trying to be one). Something like that can get you killed if you rely on a gun like this. There are better gas piston guns out there.
QUOTE (i303)
So, as an individual infantryman, don't you also carry a cleaning kit and at times, other tools specific to certain weapons? As an 11B/0311 don't you carry a dental pick, a piece of metal hanger flatened at one end, or small screw driver, or a carbon scraper just for a M16/M4 inyour "tactical gear" in order to perform routine maitenance? So a 1/4 inch allen is all too much to carry? And I supposed as the high speed operator/infantryman that you are't you supposed to perform PCI's and PMCS? I also suppose any vehicle that gets a flat instantly becomes a POS because a tire change, or drive it on the rims if necessary, will be on order. Tell me more about what can get you killed in combat please. It's not always the weapons that need some headspace and timing.
First off the XCR hasn't been around 40+ years to work out it quirks yet. The g'vmt hasn't spent a dime to test/R&D this weapon. The XCR has been out less than 2 years. issues will come up just as issues still come up on current TO&E issued equipment. I've had two issues with my XCR and one was resolved in 30 seconds and the other was resolved in about 3 days only because that is how long it took to snail mail be an upgraded part b/c I have one of the first issued XCR's.
If anyone in my platoon, as in "an individual infantryman" would have come to me with that issue, a loose bolt, I'd have given that individual the 'You gotta be kidding me. Right?' look and I would have told that individual "You gotta be kidding me. Right?".
And, yes, I do know what can get you killed in combat. to include doing nothing. Pahleze, don't get all too hung up on my low post count. More shooty, less posty!
As to HKs, I am still partial to the P2000 or USP compact system with LEM trigger. Best DAO system on the market I think. I agree that they are way over priced, about as much as SIGs. I blame the media for the pricing, every bozo wants the gun used in "Rainbow Six", "Collateral" or "24" as ti will make them uber tactical. Most of them are trained with weekends playing Counterstrike or Halo and do not know which end the bullets come out of. Grrr. Not to mention, the HK Mk 23 is the only gun I held that made a Glock 21 feel ergonomically correct. The grips are just too big even for my lumberjack hands.
The HK civilian rifle designs suck and the cool ones are not available to civies. The HK AR mags are way over priced as well as their guns. I seem to do just fine with surplus mags for each and a MagPul follower.
Oh well, the government likes them so they are blowing millions of our tax dollars buying their stuff. What can you do?
QUOTE (i303 @ Jan 26 2008, 10:02 PM)
Let me see if I got this staright, the XCR is a total POS that you don't recommend because the barrel retaining bolt came loose during a class? So just tightening it requires any special skill or tool other than a 1/4 inch allen wrench available at any hardware store, WalMart, and probably any other discount and grocery store?
My gas block screw came loose. You know what I did instead of selling it? I tightened it up.
QUOTE (Saigaczech @ Jan 27 2008, 04:08 AM)
Yes, it is a POS because a barrel coming loose during a real engagement is a big NO NO! Last I remembered I do not carry a 1/4" allen wrench in my tactical gear nor is it standard issue to any individual infantryman. If a rifle can have that sort of problem during a class, which is nice and peaceful compared to a SHTF scenario, it will fail you when you need it most. Unacceptable. Also just tightening it without the proper torque settings will mean it will either come loose again or that you damage the receiver ( I discussed this with the tech support at Robinson so it is straight dope from them). Neither is acceptable for a military class weapon (or one that is trying to be one). Something like that can get you killed if you rely on a gun like this. There are better gas piston guns out there.
QUOTE (i303)
So, as an individual infantryman, don't you also carry a cleaning kit and at times, other tools specific to certain weapons? As an 11B/0311 don't you carry a dental pick, a piece of metal hanger flatened at one end, or small screw driver, or a carbon scraper just for a M16/M4 inyour "tactical gear" in order to perform routine maitenance? So a 1/4 inch allen is all too much to carry? And I supposed as the high speed operator/infantryman that you are't you supposed to perform PCI's and PMCS? I also suppose any vehicle that gets a flat instantly becomes a POS because a tire change, or drive it on the rims if necessary, will be on order. Tell me more about what can get you killed in combat please. It's not always the weapons that need some headspace and timing.
First off the XCR hasn't been around 40+ years to work out it quirks yet. The g'vmt hasn't spent a dime to test/R&D this weapon. The XCR has been out less than 2 years. issues will come up just as issues still come up on current TO&E issued equipment. I've had two issues with my XCR and one was resolved in 30 seconds and the other was resolved in about 3 days only because that is how long it took to snail mail be an upgraded part b/c I have one of the first issued XCR's.
If anyone in my platoon, as in "an individual infantryman" would have come to me with that issue, a loose bolt, I'd have given that individual the 'You gotta be kidding me. Right?' look and I would have told that individual "You gotta be kidding me. Right?".
And, yes, I do know what can get you killed in combat. to include doing nothing. Pahleze, don't get all too hung up on my low post count. More shooty, less posty!
No gun is immune to "issues". Even well proven designs will have issues arise from time to time such as in QC at times falter.
The XCR din't get to benefit from g'vmt expense R&D/T&E such as the SCAR did. Or the 40+ years for the M16 (I still can't believe it took THAT long to resolve crappy magazines that probably caused 60% of failures). And from a first hand source, the SCAR did have issues that were/are addressed during such test and evaluations making it an impressive weapon in the end, to include not having to re-invent a magazine. Funny, didn't the XCR enter to compete with the SCAR but then DQ'd b/c a blank adaptor wasn't included? BS if you ask me and SOCOM had already picked what they wanted before the test and eval. Nothing new really.
So we are pretty much are it in R&D/T&E on ours an RA dime.
Posting problems with the XCR is fine but it seems that we are posting the same problems over and over and ignoring the sticky's posting about the same issues.
Here have been my problems and issues regarding my XCR:
#1) Gas block came loose. Noticed it at around 250 round count and still worked. Resolved: I just tightened it. No lock tite. As later posted by RA carbon will self lock tite it as I noticed that on a recent complete disasembly.
#2) Trigger fails to reset. I will later divulge as to the condition of my XCR but I will say it was filthy to the extreme, on purpose for you benefit. Round count approx 1600. I noticed the retaining clip to the hammer axis pin missing and axis pin out about 1 mm. I shook my lower around and found the clip, retrived it and reinstalled it. Still continued to have minor trigger reset issues. I determined this was due to a) dirt, b) no lube on trigger wear parts, c) trigger design. I resolved it by complete dissasembly, clean, and re-lubing of critical contact points.
#3) Failure to Fire/feed and bolt closing, hard to pull CH back. Also during extreme testing. Round count discovered at 1755 but probably also happened around 1600. Issue-firing pin tip broke, but still fired. Also later noticed cratered primers. Dissasembled and checked bolt face noticing lack of protruding FP as I pushed up on the back. Popped roll pin (drift pin purchased at Lowe's) and saw that it also was slightly bent. I also discovered that I have the old FP. E-MAILED TERRA and 3 days later I have a new complete bolt with new updated FP.
Total cost for all 3 issues: $0.00
Down time for all 3 issues: 30 seconds for #1, about 20 min total for #2, 3 days as per US Postal Service ship time. If I'd had parts on hand, about 20 min to figure it out tops plus 30 seconds to swap out.
I hope this helps. Thank you for your time and you may continue with your daily lives now.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Eric, yes, keep an eye out. If you experience anything hokey contact me. 
Rick, you are a doll. Great post, much appreciated. Lex should make you a mod. ;D
Rick, you are a doll. Great post, much appreciated. Lex should make you a mod. ;D
You're right, it's not rocket surgery.
Thanks Terra. BTW it is you who gets the A+ customer service rating.Eric, yes, keep an eye out. If you experience anything hokey contact me.
Rick, you are a doll. Great post, much appreciated. Lex should make you a mod. ;D
AND, about me being a mod, lol, I'd just end up banning myself. LOL
Good post, can't be stated enough. One of my pet peeves is someone airing their dirty laundry on the web before they actually try to get help from the manufacturer. I have found that very minimal checks will keep the XCR going.
I bought my XCR with an understanding after reading here, I might need to fidget with this and fuss with that and deal with a bit of break in. I had to do the same when I bought one of the first DSA SA58's. So what. If in the end I have a kick ass system, the ends justify the means!!!! Good post i303.
Shane
Shane
I took my entire lower apart and with the help of the forum put it all back together!
If I can do it, YOU can do it!
If I can do it, YOU can do it!
I had to get it engraved. The only issue I really had was getting that little hammer spring back into the gun (I think its called a hammer spring) ???
But yes, I have never taken an AR apart but I am confident I could fix and identify any issues with the XCR. Next week I will be building custom 1911's (no need to panic, my gun smithing days will end here)
But yes, I have never taken an AR apart but I am confident I could fix and identify any issues with the XCR. Next week I will be building custom 1911's (no need to panic, my gun smithing days will end here)
That is my favorite thing about the XCR - It's so simple. I field stripped it on the new gal's desk yesterday and showed her every part on it in about five minutes. Beautiful. ;D
Looks good, whats that behind the ejection port?
What are spammers doing? Infant urns? WTF? That almost makes me curious enough to click. Almost.
As an Infantryman myself, does the guy really think that the M16 series is without fault? In combat I've seen the M4 jam and malfunction, not to mention you have to clean it after every shot. Oh and if dirt gets into it (Kinda hard to keep it out in the Desert) you have to break the whole thing down and give it a deep cleaning. I always carried tools to fix my weapon because you never know. I just hope that Mr. Black Ops realizes that you have to be 10% smarter than the object. A Allen wrench is not going to load a soldier down.
Well my XCR is on it's way back to RA as I was getting FTE's/double feeds at least once or twice a magazine. I have heard good things about RA's customer service so am looking forward to getting it back as good as new.
I'm not a gunsmith, but I did download the RA armorers course and feel that I have a good understanding of how this weapon operates. In addition when I experienced this problem I did some testing with different ammo, different magazines and different gas settings. What I found was that worked equally well with PMags, or USGI mags, and that different ammo didn't make any difference, it would still FTE then smash the next round which would necessitate slamming the butt of the gun on the ground to free the charging handle and clear the action, not something I should have to do with a $1800 gun for sure. Only when I changed the gas setting to max did it function best. Again this is a work around and not normal, (I did break it in per RA recommendations).
Anyway, I just thought I'd add a little to this thread about some troubleshooting that you can do ahead of sending it back.
I'm not a gunsmith, but I did download the RA armorers course and feel that I have a good understanding of how this weapon operates. In addition when I experienced this problem I did some testing with different ammo, different magazines and different gas settings. What I found was that worked equally well with PMags, or USGI mags, and that different ammo didn't make any difference, it would still FTE then smash the next round which would necessitate slamming the butt of the gun on the ground to free the charging handle and clear the action, not something I should have to do with a $1800 gun for sure. Only when I changed the gas setting to max did it function best. Again this is a work around and not normal, (I did break it in per RA recommendations).
Anyway, I just thought I'd add a little to this thread about some troubleshooting that you can do ahead of sending it back.
Most likely a tight chamber based on what you've described. I hope the CS at RA has improved....regardless of what you've heard, it's got a pretty bad reputation around here.Well my XCR is on it's way back to RA as I was getting FTE's/double feeds at least once or twice a magazine. I have heard good things about RA's customer service so am looking forward to getting it back as good as new.
I'm not a gunsmith, but I did download the RA armorers course and feel that I have a good understanding of how this weapon operates. In addition when I experienced this problem I did some testing with different ammo, different magazines and different gas settings. What I found was that worked equally well with PMags, or USGI mags, and that different ammo didn't make any difference, it would still FTE then smash the next round which would necessitate slamming the butt of the gun on the ground to free the charging handle and clear the action, not something I should have to do with a $1800 gun for sure. Only when I changed the gas setting to max did it function best. Again this is a work around and not normal, (I did break it in per RA recommendations).
Anyway, I just thought I'd add a little to this thread about some troubleshooting that you can do ahead of sending it back.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
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