XCR Forum banner

1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I took my new XCR to the range to fire it for the first time and zero the optics, but quickly became disappointed. I have several AR's that I've built and have used just about every type of ammunition through with very few problems if any. Being that the XCR is of better design I didn't expect any problems to arise but was not able to shoot one round today at the range. The only ammo available when I picked my gun up was Wolf 122gr FMJ in the black box and picked up 500 rounds. This ammo absolutely would not work in the XCR. When chambering a round the bolt will feed the ammo forward but the bolt face and extractor will NOT slip over the rim of the cartridge, leaving the bolt sitting behind the round and not fully in battery. I'd remove the Mag, pull the charging handle back and let it's full force go forward and it would still not seat. This leaves the round stuck and unable to extract. I had to use a rod to push the round out while the action was back.

I tried a good amount of times using fresh rounds and the exact same problem happened every time :(
I disassembled the rifle to make sure there was no problem internally and everything was fine. Has anyone else had this problem with this ammo or any others?? I have not read anywhere that WOLF could not be used in the XCR and since it is a very common and popular ammo now I never expected to not work in a XCR if it has worked in all my other weapons flawlessly. Again, I have not found any info from anywhere else about WOLF not working in the XCR and this was the only ammo available. Thanks for reading
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
923 Posts
I have not fired the 7.62x39 XCR, but my 5.56 XCR has had around 8000 rounds of Wolf and Silver Bear without issue. It almost sounds like the ammo might be out of spec ... just a guess
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I took that into thought as well as a possible cause. Being that the brand is so Widely used if the ammo was out of spec then there would have to be many other gun owners reporting similar problems. I'm still looking....but have not came across any yet, so it seems very odd. My only other speculation is possibly the bolt assembly is out of spec. I find this very odd as I have about a thousand rounds of different WOLF ammunition in 5.56 and they all feed and extract with no problem. Would seem odd for that only the 7.62 would be out of spec. Soon as I can find other brand of ammo I'll try again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
Note that the BREAKIN WARNING states no SHIT AMMO. Wolf is SHIT> Break in with good ammo = Plus. Break in with Shit = SHIT!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,835 Posts
Take the bolt out of the gun and try to fit it by hand onto the base of a round. There may be the off chance that you have a 5.56 bolt. Is the round going into the chamber OK? i know this sounds stupid but I would make srue that the gun is a 7.62x39 gun. There may have been a mixup and you received a 5.56 part in it.

I don't shoot wolf ammo but i know the XCR will take it just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Note that the BREAKIN WARNING states no SHIT AMMO. Wolf is SHIT> Break in with good ammo = Plus. Break in with Shit = SHIT!!!
Gunner, as I stated TWICE...WOLF was the only available ammo not only at the gun store but at the range. Also, opinions are just that...opinions. And although you may not like WOLF ammo I've used it in at least 6 different weapons with no problems and very good performance as is noted by many other users of this ammo. It is not my first choice, I usually buy American Eagle, Black Hills, MagTech etc...but they sell out very fast due to demand. WOLF is by no means SHIT ammo as you stated...I've came across much worse. It fires every time, it's moderately accurate and produces good muzzle velocities.

Aziator, you mentioned some good points. Yes, I did take the bolt out and and tried to fit a round in it by hand but it seems the rim thickness of the WOLF is too thick for the extractor to make it over. After several tries with one round I took it out and examined it and there was a indentation on the bottom of the round where you can see the extractor impacted it hard enough to dent a STEEL case...but not slip over it. My only other thought was the same as yours...possibly a 5.56 bolt got put in there so I'm about to take it apart now and see. Now IF that is the case...I'm going to be quite questionable of the staff at R.A. if they put a 5.56 bolt in a 7.62 gun. Thanks for the responses from those of you that replied.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,835 Posts
I'm going to be quite questionable of the staff at R.A. if they put a 5.56 bolt in a 7.62 gun.
There is no reason to be questionable of the RA guys. The bolts are identical except for the surface face where the base of the cartridge fits into. It would be very easy to make that mistake.

I have heard of Chevy trucks leaving the factory with GMC emblems and bumpers. Mistakes happen. If this is the case you will be taken care of.No reason to start questioning people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
And just like Truck companies, Gun companies can make mistakes too. I don't ever point fingers or assume, I'll check every possibility first and I don't question RA's ability. Being that I've spoken with other 7.62x39mm XCR owners who have used WOLF with no problem it takes the ammunition out of the equation basically. One XCR owner has ONLY fired WOLF from his gun in 7.62 because he got a great deal on a 1000 rounds. Besides small break in problems, WOLF worked for him no problem. The bolt is definitely 7.62, I managed to get one round seated in the bolt by hand of Golden Tiger ammo. When inspecting the bolt closer it looks as if the Extractor is too far into the bolt face. When charged the extractor rams into the bottom of the cartridge but by no means comes close to making it around the rim. I've read XCR's have strong extractors, but when manually pushing against the extractor by hand it seems almost excessively stiff. It takes a great deal of force to push it back. If any other 7.62x39 owners have a picture of the bolt face up close can you please send a picture so I can compare with mine? I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm dying to shoot this gun and so far two different ammo's absolutely will not seat even after repeated efforts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,031 Posts
So you have tried to chamber the Golden Tiger as well and had the same issue, is that correct?

My last question would be, do these same batches of ammo shoot in a known good 7.62x39 rifle? I don't think you can fully eliminate the ammo as a possible problem quite yet, but close, if you've tried two kinds.

I would:

1) Make sure the rounds will seat on the bolt, as it appears you have already done?
2) Make sure they will drop into the chamber by hand. You probably actually will not be able to see if they are really fully into the chamber by looking at it, but this should reveal any major obstruction, such as a 5.56 chamber. How far out of battery is the rifle when the chambering stroke is halted? Can you still see brass, or is it nearly complete?

I have never removed my extractor, but I think you can do it if you want to. If the above checks don't yield anything obvious, I would call RA and get some suggestions. Was this rifle shipped as a complete 7.62x39? If so, they should have test fired it at the factory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,031 Posts
Also, I don't know if this is possible or not, but if the mag is bad, maybe that is gumming up the works somehow. Is the cartridge making it all the way out of the mag? Is the carrier binding on it at all? etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,177 Posts
It's probably the magazine. If you have a standard AK magazine, switch the spring in that out with the current spring. The rounds dont' sound like they're coming up high enough for the bolt to pick up properly. You can also manually load/unload the mag several times, that will wear it in for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
Before making any changes to the gun always change ammo and change mags first as the majority of issues always reside there regardless of platform.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
ZackAttack, I DIDN'T mean to ruffle you feathers, As I too shoot Wolf. However, for a break in ammo I would make another choice. I wish you luck on your problem, I am just glad I don't have it. ;D ;D ;D
 
G

·
Wolf is 100% fine for break in in the 762x39. In fact wolf is the INDUSTRY STANDARD for 762x39. the russian do very well making this cartidge as they have for over 50 years. it's thier cartridge and they know how to make it. ANY gun that is chambered for this cartridge that cannot shoot wolf thru it, should be tossed in the trash IMO.

in russian cartridges, russian ammo is 100% GTG.

listen to terra, cycle your mag a few times, then hand cycle your action and dry fire it about 100 times, relube then try again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,177 Posts
That said Wolf is our testing ammo of choice. The 5.56s and 7.62s are all test fired with wolf. We figure if it won't cycle with that, we aren't gonna send it out. It shot here, which is why I believe it's your unbroken in magazine causing the issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First I wanted to say thank you to everyone for their replies and taking the time to write them. I am by no means new to firearms, especially AR platforms...but this is a first for me as far as encountering this specific problem. I want to answer you all individually for process of elimination on trouble shooting this.

Ny32182-I forgot when purchasing the WOLF I bought 2 boxes of Golden Tiger that were in there. I loaded them separately and tried both ammos....exact same problem for each one. This is the only weapon I have in this caliber. Range Master stated that WOLF will not work in XCR's because it has a match grade barrel and because they're steel cased.. but works great in Romanian, Russian, Czech Guns. Basically stating he's seen this problem with XCR's before. In my head I laughed a bit because a match grade barrel is based on material, thickness, fluting, rifling, etc. Regardless, match grade or not it shoots the same round and has nothing to do with the bolt. I removed bolt from gun took a WOLF round and placing it at an angle and tried to slip the rim under the extractor. Could not get it to seat even under a lot of force. Parts were lightly lubed. Tried Golden Tiger by hand, and got one round to fit under extractor and flush with bolt...still took a ton of force. With action back and dropping round in chamber by hand it will go in no problem. When I release bolt catch...same problem. Bolt is back about half inch or slightly more from seated. Round is fully in chamber, can't see round. Rifle was purchased as 7.62, not caliber conversion.

Shrewsbury-I live in Cali(no comments needed by anyone...I know the laws are BS :)) So the mag that came with it is a 10-rounder. Rounds strip clean of Mag with both brands of ammo. By hand or stripping from mag, Bolt sits behind round every time then will not extract or fall from chamber when stood upright and shook. Being that I live in Cali, I'm more likely to find Bigfoot eating a bagel at Starbucks before I find Mags in store here. I've already ordered C-products mags, but they are 8 weeks out. So since my XCR is a Cali-Model, did they fire it in that configuration(bullet button, 10round mag that came with)?? Or test shot before being made Cali....possibly with much better mag? Mag in or out, bolt will not seat.

Gunner69-No worries, and thanks for that statement. Wasn't sure if was an attack or not as seems the case on a lot of other forums. I'll be searching for some non-steel cased ammo today.

Jack-O-You brought up a point I neglected to mention. WOLF does set a standard in this caliber of ammunition. I've read people getting sub-moa groups with it in XCR's and getting 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 inch groups out of AK's with it. Yes there are better brands/standards but this is not junk ammo.

I just again tried loading, unloading magazine, feeding it with both brands by hand or in Mag and no matter which way. Same exact problem resides. Bolt sits behind round in the chamber, round will not extract. Round has visible dent on bottom where extractor has slammed into it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,177 Posts
Is your barrel fully seated? If it's out just a little bit that could cause alignment issues. Does the bolt engage/disengage smoothly from the extension, or does it bind up? Does it slide past the ejector smoothly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Terra, action works smoothly and bolt will only go fully into battery when no rounds are in the gun. Once a round is chambered the bolt is about a half inch from being seated. I measured by using the bolt fully forward, no round in chamber compared to bolt fully forward after chambered round. Measures about 1/2 inch difference. Bolt does not bind up and it does slide past ejector smoothly. I took everything apart again and looked at all internal parts, there are no marks from binding or parts not matching up from what I can see. I am trying to find a quality digital camera so I can take pictures and video to make this problem solving any easier.
 
G

·
If the bolt face is the correct diameter to fit the x39 cart , then the likely culprit is as you suspected, the extractor is probably too far into the bolt face to be able to slip over the rim.

try dissassemling the bolt and see if there is any damage to the extractor.

barring that, I'd send the WHOLE gun into Terra to be re-inspected, repaired and test fired.

:2cents:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top