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Obama's "papers"

Has anyone been keeping up on the lawsuit claiming Obama isn't really a US citizen? Last I heard he wouldn't give his "papers" over to be verified and has them locked away in Hawaiian political BS??

I've been searching and haven't been finding anything recently.

Anyone?
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Yes. I have heard of all the lawsuits. There are quite a bit of them actually. Nothing will be done about it.

For more info on them go to http://worldnetdaily.com for the latest news on these lawsuits and other things.

I do wish to ask him this. If he is in fact a Natural Born Citizen as required by the U.S. Constitution, then why has he spent millions and millions of dollars trying to keep his alleged birth certificate from the public? That is a lot of money to spend on keeping a BC from being released.

What is he hiding I ask? :hopmad:
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

The lawsuits were all thrown out on the grounds that they had zero merit.

The man was born in Hawaii, has never renounced his citizenship or held dual nationality.

His birth certificate has been viewed and certified as valid by the relevant authorities in Hawaii

The original he holds was sufficient to get him a US passport.

Case closed except for the barking mad fringe like http://worldnetdaily.com which stretches to be at the same level of fact based journalism as the National Enquirer.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Actually, none been thrown out. Some were brought on by people who had no standing to do so. Some have of of the others suits are being brought by people who have a standing.

These are the facts my friend:

1. Obama was a student of an Indonesian school during a period of time in which only Indonesian citizens could attend. This is a known fact since you can see his class picture and the school records show him as a citizen under the name of Barry Sotoro.

2. His own paternal grandmother said she watched him come out of his mother's womb in KENYA! Why would she lie? Maybe she did lie. So why doesn't he just show the original certificate?

3. Obama's American mother was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time. Therefore, by Obama's own admission, his father who was a British citizen of Kenya at the time of his birth, that would make Obama a Citizen of Great Britain and Kenya. The Consitution precludes those with dual citizenship.

4. Obama traveled to Pakistan in the 1980's when it was illegal for Americans to do so. The Pakistani government refused American citizens entry. So on what passport did he travel to Pakistan with? You can't get a passport without a proof of citizenship.

Now all this can just be coincidence and really mean nothing. However, this all means a lot until he just releases his BC. Again, with all this controversy surrounding his citizenship, why is he spending millions in attorney fees to protect his BC from public release. What is on it that he doesn't want anyone to see? What is he hiding? What would you do if you were in his position? :-\

Please just answer my last few questions.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

I don't think it's particularly relevant either way. He's a citizen now, and has been for a long time. Is he natural born? Did he ever hold dual? It doesn't really mean much to me. I think that requirement was relevant when the Nation was just starting and there was concern that a British or another foreigner could come in and take control before a national identity was solidified. Furthermore, I don't think Obama is a Kenyan or Indonesian national in disguise. It's just geography. There are no magical powers bestowed upon people born within the borders of the US.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

1. Obama was a student of an Indonesian school during a period of time in which only Indonesian citizens could attend. This is a known fact since you can see his class picture and the school records show him as a citizen under the name of Barry Sotoro.

Get your facts right, Obama's mother re-married an Indonesian named Lolo Soetoro in 1967. Barrack Obama was called Barrack (or Barri, like Michael - Mike) Soetoro- as Indonesian residence law required the existing offspring to take the name of the father/step-father. Barrack Obama aka Barri Soetoro. No nationality bar to going to school. He was not legally adopted so no dual nationality, he was a legal resident in the same manner as a Green Card holder in the US is a resident not a citizen

2. His own paternal grandmother said she watched him come out of his mother's womb in KENYA! Why would she lie? Maybe she did lie. So why doesn't he just show the original certificate?

Where? show, link, must have had Superman's X-ray vision since his birth, birth certificate and printed birth announcement were in Hawaii.

3. Obama's American mother was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time. Therefore, by Obama's own admission, his father who was a British citizen of Kenya at the time of his birth, that would make Obama a Citizen of Great Britain and Kenya. The Consitution precludes those with dual citizenship.

Utter BS, a parent doesn't "confer" citizenship like some birthday present, She's American, he was born in America, he's American. He never assumed dual nationality or lost his American nationality, as for the whole dual nationality issue if relevant it would also apply to the first 7 presidents of the USA, all born British citizens


4. Obama traveled to Pakistan in the 1980's when it was illegal for Americans to do so. The Pakistani government refused American citizens entry. So on what passport did he travel to Pakistan with? You can't get a passport without a proof of citizenship.

Utter BS again, during the 80's the Americans were funneling weapons, cash and materiel to Afghanistan. Americans were NEVER barred from Pakistan, all that ever happened was the State Department would issue guidance to stay out of the tribal areas for your own safety.


Now all this can just be coincidence and really mean nothing. However, this all means a lot until he just releases his BC. Again, with all this controversy surrounding his citizenship, why is he spending millions in attorney fees to protect his BC from public release. What is on it that he doesn't want anyone to see? What is he hiding? What would you do if you were in his position? Undecided

His birth certificate has been released and verified by the registrar, the governor and various other interested parties, it got him a passport, it's a valid document, end of story.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"



What is wrong with this picture???

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate (Obama's Own Website)

States:
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

In my understanding Article II Requires that one be a “Natural Born Citizen”, and in terms of the Law as understood by the Framers, anyone with Dual Citizenship could not be “Natural Born”. It does not matter that they no longer hold that Citizenship, they fall into the same bracket as a “Naturalized Citizen” because they have/had Divided Allegiance. That is my view and I haven’t moved an inch on it.

However, the Kenyan Citizenship Issue may not be the main point here, WAS HE, OR WAS HE NOT, an INDONESIAN CITIZEN? The Senator isn’t saying, isn’t mentioning it, is trying to avoid producing any Paperwork at all. Why? If he is/was an Indonesian Citizen, too, the Senator’s entire narrative is a fiction and he should be ashamed of himself.

He’s lied about Kenya, at least by omission, for months/years, so why should I assume he isn’t lying about Indonesia? Note Kenyan Citizenship automatically lapses if it isn’t renewed at age 21, Indonesian Citizenship doesn’t. If he was an Indonesian Citizen he would have to actively repudiate that Citizenship. Did he? Has he? Because if he hasn’t, Senator Obama is Dual National Indonesian at this moment, subject to the Laws of BOTH Countries, equally.

That is true under US Law, Indonesian Law and International Law and until LAST YEAR Indonesia DID NOT Recognize Dual Citizenship and the USA did not Recognize that one could be a Dual US/Indonesian Citizen. It does not matter that the Senator was not Responsible for the change of Citizenship because he was a child when it happened. Governor Schwarzenegger was not Responsible for the fact that he was born in Austria, or that under Austrian Law he is not a US Citizen, or under the US Law and Rules he is not a Citizen of Austria.

Senator Obama needs to produce his Paperwork, all of it, not just a Certification of Live Birth from the State of Hawaii, but all his other Paperwork too.

So, the Senator WAS a Dual National. That is now an admitted fact, admitted by his own Campaign and by Annenberg. The Senator is a Constitutional Lawyer which means that he knows, and has always known, that he is probably Ineligible to Hold the Office of POTUS, or that, at the very least, there is a strong Legal Argument that that is the case. In turn, that means that as he lied about his Kenyan and British Citizenships he is probably lying about his Indonesian Citizenship.

I do not suppose that it was ever his intention to give up his US Citizenship and it does not matter to me one bit. It doesn’t matter to Indonesia either. If Lolo Soetoro adopted him he ceased to be a US Citizen in the mid 1960s, BY INDONESIAN LAW. He also ceased to be a Kenyan Citizen, BY INDONESIAN LAW. By Kenyan and US Law he retained his Original Citizenships, until his 21st Birthday. By Indonesian Law he could have given up Indonesian Citizenship at age 18, but did he? If he didn’t he was, albeit accidentally, displaying a Legal Intention to void his US Citizenship, since he knew he could not Legally hold both Citizenships.

Please don’t tell me that the US doesn’t have to concern itself with the Laws of Indonesia because, in this case, the US does have to do so. By the way, under US Law of another time the Senator would not have been a US Citizen at all, and he knows that.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

So, you now agree that all your other issues are fabrications with no actual basis in facts.

You continue to harp on about a single non existent state of affairs.

The man was born in the USA FACT
The man never took up any other nationality FACT
The man never renounced his US citizenship FACT
The man never took any of the OPTIONS of applying for any other citizenship FACT
The documentation has been seen, approved and verified independently FACT
The documentation meets all the State Department requirements for being a egal and valid document FACT
The SC rejected the cases out of hand by ALL the justices as having NO merit FACT

You have yet to provide any facts

Ergo he is a native born American
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

??? :-\

Did you actually read my last post? He admitted he was a dual citizen at one time in his life. That alone precludes him from being eligible. even if he was born in the U.S. he was adopted by his step father which gave him Indonesion citizenship.

Why can't you grasp that concept?
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

??? :-\

Did you actually read my last post? He admitted he was a dual citizen at one time in his life. That alone precludes him from being eligible. even if he was born in the U.S. he was adopted by his step father which gave him Indonesion citizenship.

Why can't you grasp that concept?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

Dude, if it was impossible to be a dual citizen of Indonesia and the US until a year ago, and if Obama has never renounced his US citizenship, than it would be impossible for him to have ever been an Indonesian citizen. Are you actually reading your own post?
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Obama's citizenship was renounced for him by his step father adopting him in Indonesia. :duh:
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Obama's citizenship was renounced for him by his step father adopting him in Indonesia. :duh:
F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Dude, you are not getting your information from a reliable source. Take some time, look into these theories and then voice them.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Errr... :banghead:

You are forgetting one thing. Obama was in Indonesia when he was adopted by his stepfather and it is the law of indonesia at the time of the adoption that is in question. Not U.S. law as U.S. law at the time. U.S. law recognized that Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship. Therefore, AT THE TIME of the adoption, Obama lost his U.S. citizenship and became an Indonesian citizen.

Is that a bumb deal? Probably, yes. It does suck for the child who has no say in the manner. When researching your info, please understand that laws change and it is a matter of what the law was at the time of the event. Not what the laws says now.

The law you quote is U.S. law and not the law of Indonesia at the time.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Read ALL that is written, underlined for clarity.

Insert Quote
1. Obama was a student of an Indonesian school during a period of time in which only Indonesian citizens could attend. This is a known fact since you can see his class picture and the school records show him as a citizen under the name of Barry Sotoro.

Get your facts right, Obama's mother re-married an Indonesian named Lolo Soetoro in 1967. Barrack Obama was called Barrack (or Barri, like Michael - Mike) Soetoro- as Indonesian residence law required the existing offspring to take the name of the father/step-father. Barrack Obama aka Barri Soetoro. No nationality bar to going to school. He was not legally adopted so no dual nationality, he was a legal resident in the same manner as a Green Card holder in the US is a resident not a citizen

He was never a citizen of Indonesia.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Obama thought everyone was pledging allegiance to him.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Read ALL that is written, underlined for clarity.

Insert Quote
1. Obama was a student of an Indonesian school during a period of time in which only Indonesian citizens could attend. This is a known fact since you can see his class picture and the school records show him as a citizen under the name of Barry Sotoro.

Get your facts right, Obama's mother re-married an Indonesian named Lolo Soetoro in 1967. Barrack Obama was called Barrack (or Barri, like Michael - Mike) Soetoro- as Indonesian residence law required the existing offspring to take the name of the father/step-father. Barrack Obama aka Barri Soetoro. No nationality bar to going to school. He was not legally adopted so no dual nationality, he was a legal resident in the same manner as a Green Card holder in the US is a resident not a citizen

He was never a citizen of Indonesia.


What do you mean he was not legally adopted? How do you know this? I hope you are not thinking that the procedures for adopting a child in the U.S. are the same as adopting a child in Indonesia, are you? Do you have proof of Indonesian law during that time period as to how one is adopted? I didn't think so. For all you and I know, his step-father could have only been required to verbally say it.

The AP reported: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy’s religion as Islam. (AP Photo/ Tatan Syuflana)”

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13056.htm
http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns06DMy bottom line point is this. The man says he is a Natural Born Citizen. OK, I am the King of Scotland. I didn't think you'd believe me as there is evidence to the contrary, right? Well there is evidence that suggests that PERHAPS Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen. If is then fine. All I am asking for is that he prove it.

I just want to make sure. Is that too much to ask? Really?

After this post I am done with this topic. :-X
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

Having gone through an adoption it comes down to the Hague convention, go read it.
 

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Re: Obama's "papers"

I don't think it's particularly relevant either way. He's a citizen now, and has been for a long time. Is he natural born? Did he ever hold dual? It doesn't really mean much to me. I think that requirement was relevant when the Nation was just starting and there was concern that a British or another foreigner could come in and take control before a national identity was solidified. Furthermore, I don't think Obama is a Kenyan or Indonesian national in disguise. It's just geography. There are no magical powers bestowed upon people born within the borders of the US.
How about its relevant because its the LAW. And not just any law, it is the sort of law that the founding fathers intentionally made very difficult to change. So whats the point if its just ignored? When they ignore some of those other LAWS like oh say the part that says you have the right to own an XCR, then maybe you'll care.

So, you now agree that all your other issues are fabrications with no actual basis in facts.

You continue to harp on about a single non existent state of affairs.

The man was born in the USA FACT
The man never took up any other nationality FACT
The man never renounced his US citizenship FACT
The man never took any of the OPTIONS of applying for any other citizenship FACT
The documentation has been seen, approved and verified independently FACT
The documentation meets all the State Department requirements for being a egal and valid document FACT
The SC rejected the cases out of hand by ALL the justices as having NO merit FACT

You have yet to provide any facts

Ergo he is a native born American
Ergo nothing! Should the burden of proof by on those that accuse him of not being eligible, but on him for claiming to be? Here is an interesting nugget to chew on, when Mccains citizenship came into question the Senate passed a resolution, after all his documents and history where reviewed, and declared unanimously that he is a natural born citizen. Why does Obama get a free pass when there is obviously a significant doubt?

And as for your FACTS, have you actually researched any of that, because that's a whole lot of BS.

First of the COLB that Obama posted has come into question but doesn't even matter, because it can't be used to prove natural born citizenship. that is a FACT.

Second all that anyone has seen or laid hands on is the for mentioned COLD that doesn't mean anything at all. That's a FACT (and if you want to mentioned any of those "fact check" sights don't bother. they aren't exactly "non partial" as they both belong to parent organizations that contributed to the Obama campaign. And you can go read the extremely long and detailed report at www.obamacrimes.com as to exactly what the COLB is worthless)

Oh so that also means your State Department FACT is completely bull too, which I'm sure you didn't look into at all and just believed the AP or Obama's campaign sight.

The only thing the Health Department has said is that there is a birth certificate on record for Obama in Hawaii. NO ONE HAS MENTIONED AT ALL WHAT THE HELL IT SAYS. It could say he was born on mars for all you know, and that's a FACT.

People need to open their eyes and wise up, the mans a fraud.
 
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