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Discussion Starter #1
Did a search and didnt turn up anything. What are you guys running for optics? I have a line on a USO SN4 and thought that might be the hot ticket on top of my XCR.

Shane
 

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If you look over in the sights section you will get a good idea, I am running an Eotech 553 with magnifier and a Burris Fullfield 2 tactical.
 

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That should work great. In my limited experience I've found the 1-4x range to be excellent for a battle rifle. And having it in one optic without other magnifiers and extra stuff strapped to the weapon is a plus. Until very recently I was running an IOR 1.4-4 on my XCR. I recently took it off due to the weight it added. But it really is a great all-around set up.
 

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Be VERY careful about USO.

Make 100% sure that you got EVERYTHING you paid for, BEFORE you hand over dollar one. That includes silly things like making sure that the milliradian dots are spaced 1 milliradian apart and such.

The glass is tremendous, but the company sucks rocks. john williams - now deceased (used to be the president of USO) - threatened to sue me personally for putting honest statements about his scope and customer service on the net.

I'm not the only one though - he threatened to sue another guy I know too. He did wind up suing his own field rep, who was an instructor of mine - the instructor countersued. williams wound up dropping his case, but the instructor didn't, and won.

If you pay to have a scope built there, you up-front the dough. So far, so good (no, really, I am good with that). If a while goes by, and you have no scope, that's YOUR problem. By a while, I mean a year or so. If you go to cancel your order, you WILL NOT get your money back.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It's RARE to find a stocking dealer of USO scopes, and for good reason - the first one I met talked me out of buying USO.

If you've got one, and it works, then it'll be GREAT more than likely. As I said, the glass kicks Lupita's butt. If you're going to buy one, you're venturing into enemy territory........

[disclaimer: I don't know how the company is being run under j.w. junior - but his old man was a &%#@!]
 

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Stay off USO, they aren't worth the money anymore.

If you want to spend mondy, S&B, Leupold, NightForce or Horus Vision

If you don't have lots of cash, try Millett optics or EOtech.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I appreciate the advice. However, myself and a number of friends have had great support from USO. I love my SN3 that sits on my 338Lapua. Mickey, Im sorry but Ive had most scopes. Nighforce has its place but its no USO. I dont like the Horus ret . I dont like the new customer support offered by Leuppy (Ask all the ppl with canted reticles they wont fix). I dont like paying a lot more for a S&B because of the status of the dollar. I like that I can get custom options on the USO I cant get on S&B. However, S&B is the only other one on the list I would get. I try to stick to FFP scopes which Nighforce doesnt even make. Most luppies are not FFP either but at least it can be had. Now not to turn this into a Scope brand debate... my experiences are either heavy mag scopes or no mag dots like the aimpoints. I never have used anything like the Loupy CQT, S&B 1x4, USO 1x4. I've had bad experience with IOR. So anyway the concept of a 1x4 variable sounds great but how is it in the real world and how is it on the XCR. Im not that concerned about wieght, Im 6'2", 240 lbs. All input appreciated. Thanks! ;D

Shane
 

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Well that's why there are so many manufacturers out there. Everyone's opinion is different.

Currently I have a Horus, Nightforce, IOR, Millet, EOTECH and S&B scopes in my collection. I like HORUS, as does the US ARMY shooting team, but as I shoot long range their max magnification isn't sufficient for me.

I think Nightforce and IOR make good scopes for the money and the IOR 2-12x32 sits on my FAL and gives me tha ability to shoot everything from CQB out to 800 yards with no issues. The Nightforce sits on my 338 Lapua and I have no issues with it. Price/performance it's very good and probably the reason they have DOD contracts.

The EOTECH has it's place for CQB only but beyond 300 yards the illiminated reticle screws up target identification. For me, beyond 200 yards, I turn the reticle off and use the BUIS through the EOTech window.

Millett is a reslly good deal for the money on my plinking 308. Their customer service is great and I shot a 0.25"@100yds group with the Tikka and this scope.

The S&B is sitting on a .308 AI which is due back from custom paint later this month, if i'm lucky, and does a fine job, but compared to the NightForce it's very expensive.

My ideal scope on a .223, is a 1-4x with a dot or crosshair and illumination. Illumination allows for fast 1x open eyes target acquisition. 4x gives longer range id and engagement. A renging reticle is also good but normally I zero at 50 yards and this gives me the same point of aim through 200 yards, give or take a couple of inches.
 

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I like HORUS, as does the US ARMY shooting team, but as I shoot long range their max magnification isn't sufficient for me.
I'll ask, but last time I was shooting with the CO of the AMUs, they didn't use HORUS. Maybe something has changed, and I just didn't get the memo ;D

What I do know is that sniper instructors all over don't like the HORUS reticle. For the square range, they work well - for the real world not so much.

Not enough magnification? I used a fixed 10X for basic and advanced sniper. A 10X is what I've got going for the 50BMG. Think of it this way - can you see a paint can at 100 yards with the naked eye? Sure. Can you hit it at 100 yards with open sights? Sure. A 10X means you get the same view as the paint can at 100 with open sights at 1000 yards.

I can tell you for a fact, I had and have no problems hitting at 1K, with a 10X scope.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Nighforce is a good scope but...... Not good for ranging in any mag and not good for movers in any mag. The one IOR I had fell apart at the range. Even the latest batch of New IOR's are having issues at the 500 round mark I believe. Im not here to bash IOR but that scope is NOT FOR ME. USO is in service with several agencies so....

Bravo, I have a fixed 10 on my 50 as well. I have the USO on my .338 because with 300's, that gun is capable of 1500+ yds.

Im really leaning toward picking up that USO 1x4....
 

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I agree with 10x at 1000 yards, that is the same as our standard issue S&B in the British Army. I was talking about long range, 1800 yards or so. 1000 yards is technically medium range.

For Horus their reticle has been used by winners of the US Army sniper competition in 2003/2004/2005 and was initially banned from the 2006 US Army Sniper Competition until it's general availability was confirmed and it was re-instated. In each year the winners of Top Gun and Top team both used Horus Reticles in a number of different scopes.

When shooting with a spotter there is no better reticle to adjust fire.

My IOR has survived over twentyfive hundered rounds of .308 and works fine. Perhaps they have had quality issues in the past but so have other vendors.

I don't understand the comment about Nightforce being hard to range or not being good for movers. My NXS has the mildot reticle and is basically the same as the scope on my old AI S&B equipped issue rifle. Ranging is sometimes easier with FFP scopes as you can range at any magnifications, but normally you set up a range card independantly of making shots and then either adjust your turrets or use the reticle depoending on how much time you have to make a shot. The brand of scope has nothing to do with that process. Maybe US and British training is different......

BTW: Checked with some friends and they rate the SN4 quite highly.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Your right, not really a brand issue except that Nighforce as a brand doesnt make FFP scopes. Rumer has it that is going to change. If it does, they will do VERY well. So heres an example of what I mean. Your on a night op/low light call out. You have a nightforce scope. You need to range the BG surrounded by civies. Because its a SFP you have to turn to max power to range, well your exit pupil is to small at ranging power to see so you dial down to see bg but now you cant range because your not at the ranging magnification or its exact halfway mark. That to me becomes a liability having to dance on the knobs to perform those tasks. Im glad to hear the SN4 has a good rep. Hey the reality is I can get 98% of my money back out of it if I dont like it. The more I think about it the more I think a 1x4 on the XCR will be the cats ass setup!

Shane
 

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To test the 1-4X concept on the XCR, I picked up a new Redfield 5-star.

It's a 23 or 24mm at the objective (straight 1" tube at the objective), just a simple duplex reticle.

Should give me something to work with though, before spending the big bucks on a significantly better scope, so I know how I'll like it.

I'd concern myself with paralax, but a 1X scope, especially one with such a small objective, ain't gonna have any that's detectable. Not so sure about 4X, gonna have to play with it.

One of the fellows at my CQB course was running a Lupita - that CQT scope. I think I'd pass on that one.
 

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On the ranging topic, if it's police work why not range with a laser and be done with it. Or use an MP9 or Dragunpov reticle. I know a SWAT sniper in Texas who swears by Nightforce, plus he built my Lapua for me. Personally I don't have an issue ranging with my NXS at 22x from about 100 yards onwards. Inside 100 yards, who cares. I'll only be a couple of inches above POA and I can adjust for that manually using me drop table, or usually for the first 500 yards it's in my head. FFP reticles can also be a pain in the ass. On the Horus Talon sitting on the FS2000, when I zoon out the reticle is so small that it is unuseable for ranging. FFP has some benefit but also some disadvantages. Let's say you're on a 5.5x22 and you zoom out, the reticle is going to be four times smaller than at 22x, that makes it hard to use for accurate distinction of partial mill readings.

I'm not trying to be an ass, I just want to understand the thought process.

Personally, anything inside 800-1000 yards is done with fixed 10x scope so ranging doesn't matter. At long range you're not likely to make snap shots so a non-FFP reticle doesn't matter. Zoom in, make your range and then zoom out to a comfortable magnification for the shot.

Go with the 1-4x on the XCR it's such a sweet setup it's almost as if they were made for each other.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Mickey, not taking anything personally or as a smart ass, good discussions that all can benefit from ;D . If a SFP works for you have at it. I have SFP scopes on other guns as well. I have 2 Nikon tacticals. I know a number of ppl that kick the snot outta me in LR shooting with SFP scopes. Their experience far outwieghs my equipment :eek:. Bravo, I would be very interested to hear how you make out.

Thanks
Shane
 
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